Solo Casual?

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Solo Casual?

Postby Galactic Geek on Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:53 am

I'm getting to a point where I'd like to see a Solo Casual mode, that's like SS, but in casuals. I'm sick of having friends who are, for whatever reason, unavailable forcing me to play with inexperienced/ignorant randoms vs. a partied-up team of well-coordinated and practiced individuals. Last night, while soloing (not by choice), I left after every full match to search for others and counted a grand total of 8 matches IN A ROW where this absolutely unfair phenomenon occurred...

It's complete hooey, if you ask me; parties vs. parties and randoms vs. randoms ONLY, please.

While this may cause longer wait times in matchmaking, I think the far-improved and balanced matches will more than make up for it. For those of you who may say that there's not enough players to warrant such a change, I would counter with "the impetus is on Psyonix to keep the ball rolling - to draw new people in and to keep them playing and talking about RL, just like any other form of entertainment, is it not?"
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby NoOne-NBA on Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:26 pm

If you're playing alone, what difference does it make if it's Casual, or Ranked?
What EXACTLY would you like to see, that isn't currently available in Solo Standard?

More people quitting?
Bots?
More smurfs?
Joining 0-6 matches with 1 minute left?

Those are all you're going to get switching from Ranked to Casual.
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby Galactic Geek on Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:08 pm

I disagree - because the matches will be fairer, and not have parties vs. individuals, I would argue that you would actually see less of those things. Also, the key difference between this hypothetical mode and SS is that it would not affect any kind of rank whatsoever - I could practice/warm up to my heart's content, while being reassured that the odds are not as stacked against me as they already are now; right now, players often feel like the end is nigh, and that shouldn't be how Psyonix wants their fanbase to feel...
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby NoOne-NBA on Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:28 pm

Galactic Geek wrote:I would argue that you would actually see less of those things...

And, you'd be wrong because you don't know what you're talking about.

Galactic Geek wrote:Also, the key difference between this hypothetical mode and SS is that it would not affect any kind of rank whatsoever - I could practice/warm up to my heart's content, while being reassured that the odds are not as stacked against me as they already are now...

Here's a great example of that...

Casual uses EXACTLY the same ranking system as Ranked.
It just doesn't SHOW you your rank, at the end of each match.
This is done to make you FEEL better about yourself, in spite of your actual performance.
Anything that would happen to your rank in Competitive will happen to your rank in Casual.

The one difference I've seen between Ranked and Casual is that Casual seems to allow a slightly wider spread between players.
Add that into the mix, and you'll have even worse teammates, and even better competition.
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby Doomstrike on Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:44 am

Plus if you are using unranked to practice what does it matter if your teammate or opponents are better it doesn't really effect your ability to practice.

by the way there are tons of game apps and discord channels where you can search for people to play with that are your rank or whatever you like them to be. literally just put your name in the que for things like ranked doubles diamond 3 and boom you will get a list of people looking to play that you can team up with. Then just a matter of friending them and ta da! you now have friends that play at your level. I installed steam for this game. Non of my RL friends play this game but I currently have a friends list of some 30 odd people that I can play with and pick from. It doesn't take much to build up friends list and that's without using any apps and prior to me really using discord
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby Galactic Geek on Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:23 am

NoOne-NBA:
I already know about the hidden MMR in casual. Like in ranked, I get punished for quitting and losing (generally speaking, of course, as I rarely ever quit) by progressively being placed with players that are either more likely to quit, that are unskilled, or more than likely both. While I can understand having this in ranked, I don't believe that it belongs in casual, because of its, well, casual nature...

DoomStrike:
It does affect your ability to practice - for example, I can't do advanced setup passes if my unskilled teammate doesn't recognize, or is in position to receive, a pass. It's even more complicated by players who fail to rotate, ball chase, crash into one another, etc.

As for the apps and Discord channels, those aren't available on Xbox, so... *AHEM* That said, we do have LFGs (looking for groups) and Clubs - sadly, most of those are saturated with requests for trading (which I loathe every time I see 1 pop up from a friend) which don't do me any good.

NoOne-NBA and DoomStrike
The chief reason I hate playing with lower-ranked players in both casual and SS, in addition to losing more frequently (which is in effect its own "snowball down the mountain"), I genuinely worry about my own skill stagnating, or picking up bad habits - the way RL is set up, it seems to reinforce this, IMO.

I do have some good news though - I got a chance (finally!) to play with a decently-skilled friend in ranked last night, and although he is admittedly only almost as good as me, he brought along with him his own friends who are as good as me, so we rocked the house, and in Standard 3s I was placed in high platinum, where the games were far more fun, close, and suited to my style and level of play. So, I made some new friends out of these friends of friends. We'll see how well I do with them, provided they don't eventually forget I exist, like so many already have. Let's just hope I can continue to climb the ranks and do the same in SS.
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby NoOne-NBA on Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:16 am

Galactic Geek wrote:I already know about the hidden MMR in casual...
While I can understand having this in ranked, I don't believe that it belongs in casual, because of its, well, casual nature...

You apparently DON'T understand MMR though.

"MMR" is a MATCHMAKING RATING.
It's entire purpose is to place you into matches where you have as close to a 50-50 chance of winning as possible.
It does that by placing you into matches with other players whose win/loss records are similar to your own, AT THAT LEVEL.

Without that, you'd be getting placed into completely random matchups, which would quite often find you pitted against Champion-level competition, while teamed with a couple Day 1 Rookies.
That is NOT what you want, unless you enjoy EVERY match you play being a complete blowout; half for you, half against you.

To flip the coin here, how would YOU suggest Psyonix handle these matchups in Casual, if not for a matchmaking rating?
Keep in mind your solution has to be applied to EVERYONE, across the board, with simultaneous, yet relatively equal results.

Galactic Geek wrote:So, I made some new friends out of these friends of friends...

That is exactly what I told you to seek out, way back when you first complained about facing teams, while playing solo.
I hope it works out for you.
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby Doomstrike on Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:48 am

Galactic Geek wrote:
As for the apps and Discord channels, those aren't available on Xbox, so... *AHEM* That said, we do have LFGs (looking for groups) and Clubs - sadly, most of those are saturated with requests for trading (which I loathe every time I see 1 pop up from a friend) which don't do me any good.

NoOne-NBA and DoomStrike
The chief reason I hate playing with lower-ranked players in both casual and SS, in addition to losing more frequently (which is in effect its own "snowball down the mountain"), I genuinely worry about my own skill stagnating, or picking up bad habits - the way RL is set up, it seems to reinforce this, IMO.

I do have some good news though - I got a chance (finally!) to play with a decently-skilled friend in ranked last night, and although he is admittedly only almost as good as me, he brought along with him his own friends who are as good as me, so we rocked the house, and in Standard 3s I was placed in high platinum, where the games were far more fun, close, and suited to my style and level of play. So, I made some new friends out of these friends of friends. We'll see how well I do with them, provided they don't eventually forget I exist, like so many already have. Let's just hope I can continue to climb the ranks and do the same in SS.


You gata stop saying things like that. The apps are available for your cell phone, they aren't pc only or anything like that. Discord works on cell phones, tablets, and of course PC and anything that has a browser. So if your playing on your xbox at home you most likely have wifi most likely which means you just pop your phone beside you and away you go, wether you use headphones or speaker phone whatever you want thats up to you..

here is a link to the app for example this is just one of https://gamerlink.gg/rocket-league-lfg/

Discord works in any browser or you can use the apps or downloads. There is no excuse in the modern world for saying I don't have anyone to play with, its not hard to find people as there are forums with people looking to party up, there are LFG discord servers all over the place, hell even reddit and now you have apps that simply it even more so.

Now saying you just don't want to make any friends that's fine too and that is usually more realistic but since you now have made some friends just keep friending there friends as you play more with them and next thing you know you should have more then enough people to play with. That will apply even more so when cross platform party fully works (will the native voice chat work though that's the big question and by work I mean improved, upgraded. Tweaked so it actually works decently so i don't need to use discord good) and if that answer is a no then everyone will be on discord however they choose to connect
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby Galactic Geek on Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:38 pm

My PC's broken, I have no tablet, and my cell is not a smart one... So, yay for modern inconveniences...
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby AlexCuse44 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:55 pm

Galactic Geek wrote:My PC's broken, I have no tablet, and my cell is not a smart one... So, yay for modern inconveniences...


If that is all true then how did you post that message? :laugh:
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby littlebigleg on Sun Jun 10, 2018 1:26 am

AlexCuse44 wrote:
Galactic Geek wrote:My PC's broken, I have no tablet, and my cell is not a smart one... So, yay for modern inconveniences...


If that is all true then how did you post that message? :laugh:


lol this just got intresting
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby Galactic Geek on Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:37 am

AlexCuse44 wrote:
Galactic Geek wrote:My PC's broken, I have no tablet, and my cell is not a smart one... So, yay for modern inconveniences...


If that is all true then how did you post that message? :laugh:


I use the MS Edge app on my XB1, but I can't use it and still play RL at the same time.
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby Doomstrike on Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:31 am

Lol well then I'd say it seems you have some higher priorties to worry about first before worrying about MM and rocket league.

also lol xbox supports discord now too so even less of an issue
https://support.discordapp.com/hc/en-us ... Connection
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby diesoften on Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:28 pm

I would love to see the option of Casual Solo Standard. Pretty much every unenjoyable game of Rocket League I have involves a team of 3 vs solos. Other team trash talking/spamming chat/etc? Yeah turns out they're queued together. Getting slaughtered 4-0 in the first 2 minutes? Team vs solos. Join a game down 0-7? It's 3 v 1, you vs a team. I'm willing to wait through much longer queues to get a fair game than to waste my time trying to play against a team.

That or balance the teams accordingly, the stats have to back up that a team of 3 will tend to beat 3 solos the vast vast majority of the time. They also would probably back up that the majority of games where teams lose by 5+ or games end early with a team down by >=3 are a team vs solos.
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Re: Solo Casual?

Postby NoOne-NBA on Tue Jul 24, 2018 6:51 am

diesoften wrote:That or balance the teams accordingly, the stats have to back up that a team of 3 will tend to beat 3 solos the vast vast majority of the time...

Psyonix has approached this from several different directions, examined the data produced, and used that data to tweak things to their current state.

While examining the data they'd gathered, and looking specifically at the results of matches between pre-made teams and solo players, Psyonix originally discovered that teams had a slight advantage, when the MMR numbers were equal between the two teams, due to better communication, familiarity, etc...
That led them to try the short-lived, but even worse, option of forming solo teams built with players roughly equal to the highest ranked player on the premade team.
Unsurprisingly, they found that an 800/800/800 team of solo players had an even larger advantage against a pre-made 800/500/500 team, than the 800/500/500 team had experienced against the 600/600/600 teams they were formerly facing.

That, in turn, led Psyonix to tweak the gap they were shooting for, between teams, until they arrived at the current level, which has reportedly achieved as close to a 50/50 split as they've found possible.
From my experience, this works relatively well, as long as everyone in the match is playing on a legitimately ranked account.
Where I've seen most of the issues with this is when people start playing on lower ranked alt accounts.

That's not to say YOU will experience a 50/50 with the new system, on a personal level.
Psyonix is using a cumulative report of everyone playing on a team, vs. the solo players they face.
According to your post, you tend to lose a lot while playing solo.
I tend to win a lot, while playing solo, which offsets your losses, when Psyonix examines the combined data.

Having the overall win ratios of those groups be relatively equal is the best Psyonix can do with this, unless you have a better idea they haven't tried yet.
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