Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

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Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby windarts on Mon Jan 07, 2019 2:26 am

Hey there,

I've been having a terrible user experience with the game these last few days.

I really want to play the game but it seems impossible at this point. My 11 year old nephew also can't play the game anymore at all when he visits.

Can someone from psyonix show care and help me out here?
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby Spiffers on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:49 am

I'm going to (potentially) disappoint you and say: No, Psyonix is not likely to see this post in any relatively near timeframe, and they are even less likely to be able to help you with the game when your only issue is "it's impossible to play". If you mean there's a technical issue, you should contact support directly. If you are talking mentally or socially... those are harder for Psyonix to help with. Aside from the general chant of "Turn off chat" if that's relevant.

Back to actually trying to help to some degree: So why is the game in a way that it seems "impossible at this point"?
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby Tentacles on Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:01 am

Usually the community can help but you have to share the issue in full detail.
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby windarts on Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:36 am

Wow, this is very disappointing to hear that Psyonix wouldn't care enough to have people to assist their community and escalate global issues...

If they have made themselves to be unreachable even in their own website's forum, no point in discussing this any further in such case.

Such a shame.
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby Spiffers on Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:13 am

Once again, they're not impossible to contact, you should simply contact them at https://support.rocketleague.com to talk to them about the issue. We still don't understand what you're talking about, but if you want to escalate any issue, that url is the way to go.
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby NoOne-NBA on Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:50 am

windarts wrote:Wow, this is very disappointing to hear that Psyonix wouldn't care enough to have people to assist their community and escalate global issues...

If they have made themselves to be unreachable even in their own website's forum, no point in discussing this any further in such case.

Such a shame.

There are plenty of people here ready/willing to help you, but you need to contribute to the effort.

This is your second complete post here, and you have yet to tell anyone what specific issues you are having with the game.
Do you really expect people to suggest solutions to a problem you haven't properly identified?
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby zGreenMachine- on Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:36 am

- What system are you playing Rocket League on? PC/Xbox/PS4/Switch ?
- Is there a certain part of the game that doesn't work?
- Does the game start? If so, does it crash repeatedly? When does it crash?

We can try to help you out if you provide more details about your issue besides "game no work" ;)

For help directly from Psyonix support, submit a help ticket at their support website: https://support.rocketleague.com/
If you choose to submit a ticket, just know that they will also need specific details about your problem, otherwise they won't be able to help either.
[yes because AlexCuse44 said so]
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby AlexCuse44 on Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:41 pm

windarts wrote:Wow, this is very disappointing to hear that Psyonix wouldn't care enough to have people to assist their community and escalate global issues...

If they have made themselves to be unreachable even in their own website's forum, no point in discussing this any further in such case.

Such a shame.


We are literally here trying to help you. Disappointing to hear that you just want to waste our time.
[how about yes]
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby windarts on Wed Jan 16, 2019 4:54 am

Spiffers wrote:Once again, they're not impossible to contact, you should simply contact them at https://support.rocketleague.com to talk to them about the issue. We still don't understand what you're talking about, but if you want to escalate any issue, that url is the way to go.

I will give it a try, thank you.

AlexCuse44 wrote:We are literally here trying to help you. Disappointing to hear that you just want to waste our time.

I am not wasting anybody's time, I had a question and it got answered pretty straight forward. If you believe it is a waste of time for you to visit this post and comment on it, then aren't you yourself wasting your own time? I really see no point in you posting this in the first place and in me commenting on it further. Hope you understand now.

NoOne-NBA wrote:There are plenty of people here ready/willing to help you, but you need to contribute to the effort.

This is your second complete post here, and you have yet to tell anyone what specific issues you are having with the game.
Do you really expect people to suggest solutions to a problem you haven't properly identified?

I neither expected help from anyone here nor did I request from this community to suggest solutions for the problem at hand, I needed support from psyonix and to discuss this with them directly. I've come across some information about how the game works and thus got a better explanation of the problem itself. As far as I understand the problem is occurring for most people which are high level, myself and my nephew included. If YOU do want details for the issue, here it is:

Whenever I queue for a ranked 2v2 or 3v3 game I always get people on my side which really appear to be completely new to the game, i.e. they can't hit the ball, have absolutely no awareness of their surroundings, chase the ball non-stop, bump their teammates etc. Same is for the other ranked modes. The most problematic in all this is that they often leave mid game and never return, after the others have scored multiple times. However, we've noticed that on normal games we usually get people around our level in the same team - decent players which are either not bad or even much better than me.

Thus I was further told by more experienced people that this is how the matchmaking in the game has been working for a while - most of the time less skilled players will be put in team with more skilled players so that they can have a chance at winning and they don't lose the will to play the game further. Apparently the game didn't work like that nearly a couple of years ago, when new players were matched with other new players the games were rather dull and most of them even gave up on it and requested a refund (again, so I was told).

Main question is: how are we expected to play ranked games properly and earn any rewards from them, because we're f2p players, if we can never get a decent teammate that would also stick around for the whole game?

Now, let me ask - is there anything the community here can suggest as a solution to this problem of ours?
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby NoOne-NBA on Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:24 am

windarts wrote:Now, let me ask - is there anything the community here can suggest as a solution to this problem of ours?

The easiest solution to your problem is to actively develop your friends list.
Playing with friends will eliminate much of the lottery involved in playing with random teammates, giving you more consistent matches.

Going into a match with teammates (especially if they are close to you in terms of skill and ranking) gives the game less random spots to fill, so it can do a better job of matchmaking.
If you go into a 3v3, with two similarly ranked teammates, and the game finds a 2-player premade team with similar rankings to your own, that leaves it looking for ONE random player whose ranking will bring the total of the other team relatively equal to the total of your team.
If you go into that same match as a solo player, you end up either as the filler guy I'm talking about there (taking your chances on who the game throws you in with), or you will be part of a larger crap shoot, where the game has to find as many as SIX random solo players, then try to balance everyone the best it can with very limited information.

Your interpretation of what you are seeing is the exact opposite of what is actually happening in the game.
Ranked matchmaking is much tighter than Casual matchmaking, and BOTH favor solo players over premade teams.
When you are playing Ranked, most of the people in the match will tend to be closer to your current MMR, than they would be if you were in Casual.
If you leave teammate selection to chance, you end up with whomever the game can find, based solely only on their current ranking number.
If you're on a 3 player solo team, facing a 3 player premade team, your team's MMR will be slightly higher than the other team, whenever possible.

The same is true in Casual, but the allowable spread for the MMR values is greater there.
You are seeing "higher level players" in this mode specifically because the game is less strict.
You are being used to backfill matches for other players, all of whom may, or may not, be ranked appropriately for their current skill level.

All of that being said, you also have multiple MMR values in play here.
If you play MOSTLY Casual, your MMR there will be much better stabilized than it is for other queues, allowing the matchmaker to put you into matches with more certainty.
If you enter a Ranked queue you've never played before, you will have about 600 MMR going in, which is right on the break between Gold and Plat.
That's where the big crap shoot is in this game because it's mixing players who all SHOW a 600ish MMR, but whose actual skills could range anywhere from "I deserve to be much higher than I am, but I can't seem to work my way out of this cesspool", all the way down to "Oh, I'm supposed to put THIS ball into THAT hole over there?"

I'm not sure what platform you are playing on, but PC will allow you to show player rankings directly on the scoreboard, during a match, with programs like Alpha Console.
You'd probably be surprised how many of those "useless teammates" you keep getting are actually ranked higher than you.
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby steblood on Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:36 am

Just, LOL!
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby zGreenMachine- on Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:05 am

windarts wrote:Whenever I queue for a ranked 2v2 or 3v3 game I always get people on my side which really appear to be completely new to the game, i.e. they can't hit the ball, have absolutely no awareness of their surroundings, chase the ball non-stop, bump their teammates etc. Same is for the other ranked modes. The most problematic in all this is that they often leave mid game and never return, after the others have scored multiple times. However, we've noticed that on normal games we usually get people around our level in the same team - decent players which are either not bad or even much better than me.


So if I understand this correctly: you get noobs for teammates in ranked, but you get teammates around your skill level in unranked/casual matches?

If that's the case, then the "problem" is due to a misunderstanding of how the matchmaking system works.

In ranked modes and casual, there's a semi-hidden number called MMR (match making rating) which the game uses to determine your skill level. When you search for a match, the game matches you with/against other players around your MMR to try to give everyone in the lobby a fair match.

But Ranked and Casual have different MMR values, and in this case the game might think that you're more "skilled" in casual than you are in ranked, which is why you're getting "bad" teammates in ranked but not in casual.
[yes because AlexCuse44 said so]
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby windarts on Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:56 am

Alright, NoOne-NBA, zGreenMachine-, I completely understand what you're both saying and that's basically the same info I got from other people.

However, here's where the infinite problem arises - I recently started playing ranked, I'm Plat in 2v2 and for the life of me I can never rank higher than that due to the aforementioned problem.

Developing a friends list to play with premade parties was the first thing that crossed my mind, NoOne-NBA, but this will definitely take time and I'm not comfortable with investing any in people which may or may not continue playing this, apparently, broken game (lots of things are broken, hit boxes for one, but don't get me started there...). I also shouldn't have to go through such an alternative to simply play the game like a normal human being, as intended. Not everyone may have the option to find friends and play with them, it doesn't seem fair to make them do so in order to have a normal gaming experience in RL. I still have people in my friends list which, judging by their steam profiles, haven't played the game in months, some in more than a year. The only capable person I used to play with is now far away from my timezone and it's like a christmas miracle if we get to play together.

I feel like I'm being punished as a player for playing competitive, the whole system is flawed and I've seen better matchmaking systems in other games.

So, tell me, please, if I constantly get bad and unskilled teammates versus people who actually know their s**t, how am I ever going to escape this "MMR" hell? How can I advance in the competitive rankings if the game constantly matches me with such people on my team?

Give me any advice, any info, anything. I've paid money to play a game that is now making me feel like unwanted refugee. Should I start digging around the eula, policies and such to prove Psyonix wrong, cuz I really do feel like this game's a dead end now for me as well...

P.S.
Right before I wrote all of this, I played 3 competitive games where:
#1 - first game was with a guy who completely ignored me and my questions on why he's doing all this and not letting me play with the ball, he was a ball chaser which never hit the ball, but simply kept bumping me instead when I gave it a try.
#2 - second game I got a guy which could not hit the ball towards an intentional direction and simply used the quick chat "No problem." when I asked him as well why he's playing like this and not allowing me to score, since he's obviously unable to. (I've got a 5 min instant replay of that game (chat and all) and I can upload it somewhere, but I doubt it's worth the time and anyone would care)
#3 - similar as guy #2, however, this guy was AFK whenever he wanted, still couldn't hit the ball and got me instead when I tried (sigh), but at least the other team was understanding and reported him for unsportsmanlike conduct and/or AFK.
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby NoOne-NBA on Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:27 am

windarts wrote:...It doesn't seem fair to make them do so in order to have a normal gaming experience in RL.

Psyonix isn't MAKING anybody do anything.
They are simply offering choices.

If you want to play with friends who are your equals, in terms of rank and skill, you have that option.
That option provides the best experience the game can offer, but even it runs into issues at times, with improperly ranked players.
If you are choosing your own teammates wisely, that limits the randomness to the other team.
This will tend to work in your favor at times, and against it at other times.

If you want to play with friends who have ranks significantly different than your own, you have that option as well.
Doing so will pretty much guarantee you will be facing an uphill battle, much of the time.
The game tries to pick other pre-made teams, when it can find ones with similar ranking to your own.
When it can't find another pre-made team, it will place you against random solo players, whose total MMR will be higher than your own, to offset the advantages inherent to pre-made teams.

If you want to leave your teammate selection to random chance, that is also a valid option.
If you choose to do that, you must also to be willing to accept the consequences of that choice.
The game can't look past the ranking number, for any given player.
If you're ranked at 800 MMR, it will try to place you with/against other 800 MMR players, regardless of their actual skill levels.
Some of those players will be 1100 MMR players, who have been held back by bad teammates.
Others will be 500 MMR players who have been carried up to 800 MMR by good teammates.

windarts wrote:So, tell me, please, if I constantly get bad and unskilled teammates versus people who actually know their s**t, how am I ever going to escape this "MMR" hell? How can I advance in the competitive rankings if the game constantly matches me with such people on my team?

The issue here isn't "escaping" MMR.
It's understanding it's purpose, and interpreting the results properly.

The only function of MMR is to get you to a place on the ladder where you will have a 50:50 win ratio.
For some people that level is Champion; for others, Bronze.
For you, that spot is currently Platinum.
It's up to you to tilt the scales into your favor, if you want to move up.

Assuming you deserve to be higher than you are, your teams should have an overwhelming advantage because your team will ALWAYS have at least one good player on it.
For any match where you draw another good player, giving your team TWO good players (GG), the other team can only match you, at best, and will have a 3:4 chance of being inferior due to having at least one bad player (B) on their team.
Your team should expect to win 3 of the four possible matchups, with the 4th being a tossup.

GG GG Tossup
GG GB Win
GG BG Win
GG BB Win

Even when you draw a bad player (GB) your team should still expect a 50:50 win ratio, assuming you can split the tossup matches.
GB GG Loss
GB GB Tossup
GB BG Tossup
GB BB Win

The overall expectations for your team are 4W-1L-3T, if everything plays out exactly as expected.
All you need to do, to provide some upward mobility for yourself, is figure out a way to go 1:2 on those tossup matches.
Doing so will give you a 5-3 record, and send you on your way.

The only thing you can do, to achieve that, is focus on your own play, and see what YOU can do to improve the odds your team will win.
This will require you to quickly recognize specific advantages/faults displayed by your teammates, so you can change your play style to capitalize on their advantages, while covering for their faults.
As you better adapt your game play to compensate for sub-par teammates, you will move up in ranking.

When you're teamed with a ball chaser, hang back, and let him do his thing, even if he's missing a lot.
As stupid and simple as it sounds, your goal here is to make more goals than you give away.
Any goals you can prevent are goals you won't have to make up on the back end.
If you can cover midfield, and keep feeding the ball in to the ball chaser, he'll eventually score, or will leave you with a "can't pass up" opportunity to do so yourself.

If you're teamed with someone who is too passive, play hyper-aggressively, but leave that player opportunities to join the rotation.
Set the ball, call "Centering", and head immediately for defense.
That will let the other player know that YOU aren't a ball chaser, and are expecting them to provide support, which will allow them to alter their own play accordingly.

Don't expect miracles from any of this though.
The net result of moving up is you will be faced with exactly the same situation, at the new higher level.
There's no escape from inept teammates in this game, if you leave teammate selection to random chance.
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby Midremit on Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:46 am

@OP, do you get competitive games or do you lose 13-0? If it's the former, that's the whole purpose of the game. It's the very concept that psyonix used to build the whole game around. Just gotta learn how to play around your mates's mistakes, anywhere, anytime.

I'm also going to drop this summary of tips here, may help you on your quest up to better games.

Scyonite wrote:
Let me show you a summary of everything useful in this thread you could've used to get to know why.

littlebigleg wrote:They think they are always the carrier and never at fault.


midnightgreen20 wrote:As much as people will say to stop blaming teammates and look to improve yourself, individual improvement can only do so much when the biggest issue is the team play.


Scyonite wrote:But do you really think you can grow in this game by pointing fingers going "you're doing this wrong"? You don't. You learn in this game by pointing a finger at yourself.


Midremit wrote:Screw that 'bad' teammate, you're in the same tier for a reason, whether you like to hear it or not.


Scyonite wrote:It's a team game, and when you realize that and change your expectations accordingly you'll find that you're going to be way better off.


zGreenMachine wrote:Solo-q can be tricky but once you do it enough you kind of learn how to work with randoms. Basically I just play with the mentality that I expect them to mess up so I try to keep myself in a position to cover them if/when they do. But part of it is also learning when you actually can trust them too.


Midremit wrote:Just can't understand why they keep complaining and blaming everyone but themselves.


zGreenMachine wrote:Rotation is part of it. Ball control is part of it. You can't get by with just being good at one of those. Insane mechanical skill won't do you any good if you're constantly in the wrong place all the time.


Midremit wrote:They're critical about their own gameplay, they're open for advise, hell, they even ask for it. You don't need insane skills to rank up, all you need to do is improve steadily and consistently, which is the same for higher tier players if they want to reach new heights.


Scyonite wrote:You fail to see the good your teammates can do. This leads you to alter your choices because you don't trust them and now your choices affect your teammates' choices as well. You're completely focussing on the mechanical part of the game, and this causes you to lose sight of the value of teamplay and this is a detriment to your team. Your teamplay lacks. If you want to get better at this game, you have to get your head out of your arse and admit that your problem starts with you, not anyone else. How else are there still over 20% of players that leave platinum in their wake? It's their ability to work with their teammates.


Scyonite wrote:You will never understand your own behaviour scrubbs off of your teammates if you keep on going like this. So many pro's in this game explain in videos the worst thing you can do to your OWN game is flame, correct or outchase your teammates, because as soon as you do that, they can't truly focus on their game. Your own behaviour is what's taking you down, yet you KEEP thinking it's not.


Scyonite wrote:I know how a steady match and a solid ranked experience is formed. Believing you're better than a teammate and rubbing their nose in it is a detriment to this. Along with thinking too lowly of teamplay (rotation, spacing, positioning).

From plat to diamond to champ you can see rotation changing as your rank changes. Furthermore, through these ranks people will form a better idea of positioning and spacing as well. Two teamplay skills that are increasingly difficult and often overlooked. Positioning being the ability to cover for your team, work with your team and being able to cushion or challenge offensive opponent play. Spacing being the ability to see what your team needs from you rotationally; slow play or fast play, distance to teammate's rotation and filling up the team's rotational presence to form steady pressure. Players that overlook, or don't care to admit these skills are more important than they seem suffer from transrankism. Probably, their mechanical skill is better, and because their teamplay is lacking their mechanical skill is akin to that of people in a higher rank. But they don't deserve that higher rank and they can't get to it, because they can't work with their team.

All in all, people need to definitely work on the mechanical skills you named, when the ball is in possession of a player this player has a certain quality of play he/she should be able to do. But so many people don't realize rotation, positioning and spacing is how teamplay is formed.


Scyonite wrote:A lot of players have gotten further than platinum. And that's not because they focus on being to do more mechanically only. They realized pace and teamplay presence is as much of a deciding factor as mechanical ability, if not more. I've gone through these ranks. I've seen how teamplay changes. I've seen how mechanics change. And over all the posts you've made all I can say is you're underestimating what it takes to get up in and go through these ranks.

If you keep focussing on your mechanical ability only then sure, the game will always feel quickly paced to you. If you learn to sit back, take in what's happening and to identify where and when you need to be quick you will get your breaks. Furthermore, if you get a more teamplay minded mindset eventually you get used to the pace.

At certain ranks you can't excuse a player for whiffing certain shots. Some expectancy just is built in in each rank. But I don't feel like you stop and think why that player might be whiffing such easy shots. Maybe your other teammate put him off, maybe you put him off or maybe the opponents put him off. But the matter of the fact is, if you play like or say stuff that rubs his nose in his mistake he's not gonna do any better. Even though it might not feel like it to you, your team is only as good as you. And you have to make the best of it.

FlashPower wrote:With rotation alone is nothing to win because everyone knows this rotationstuff on a high level now. So it is all about the quality.


This is just not true. This is your interpretation of the rank you're at. A lot of players have gotten further, and they would all say there's still so much to learn rotation-wise, pace-wise, positioning-wise and spacing-wise. You're scrubbing off rotation as not being important anymore, and you feel like you have to get a higher rank through mechanics.

Improving your mechanics is not a bad thing. It will always be useful. But thinking this is all it takes to improve in this game and gain ranks to the likes of Grand Champions just is a heavily flawed mindset


NoOne-NBA wrote:What I see most often are people who have learned one trick really well, and leverage their one trick to great effect, against lesser players.
The two tricks people seem to gravitate to, at least from my perspective, are dribble flicks and wall-to-air drags.
Someone with good technical skills on either of those may appear to be more skilled than they are, to the point they could easily be mistaken for a smurf, especially if you are actively LOOKING for smurfs.
If you look past that one trick they do well, a lot of them just don't have anything beyond that though.

In particular, I find a lot of those players lack team play because they are so used to forcing the issue on their own.
If you get two decent players on your team, who work well together, those solo players are pretty easy to take out of the match.


Midremit wrote:It was only after I realised that these 'extremely high skilled ceiling shooters/dribbling players/whatevers' are actually trash I got out of the ranks. This by pressing them whenever they got the ball, but that of course requires a little game intelligence/experience. Air drags or ceiling shots don't work, less and less even, from diamond and onwards.


BigbearXBA wrote:Let’s take a second and assume that some of you are correct and your inability to rank up has nothing to do with you and everything to do with “trashmates.” Even if that is true, your best option for a solution is to behave like it isn’t true. You can only control how you play. So even if you truly think your teammates are the problem, try evaluating and adjusting your play as if you were the problem. Even if you weren’t the problem, your play should improve. At least in context of playing with that subset of teammates. Constantly blaming teammates and trying to shoehorn your playstyle in with these “trashmates” will only cause you to stagnate. Nothing will ever change.


NoOne-NBA wrote:
FlashPower wrote:The point has been hit already. The mates are mostly trash. The enemies but mostly on a high high standards, and this means you have to make it alone...

You have only one chance...

Assuming you ARE a better player than your current rank reflects, and you're playing 2s, YOUR team will have the advantage in 4 of the 8 possible matchups, will be at a disadvantage for only 1, with the other 3 combinations being a tossup.

If you win when you should, lose when you should, and only win 1/3 of the toss-up matches, you will end up with a 62.5% win rate.
If you manage to go 2/3 on the toss-ups, your win rate goes up to 75%.
Even if you lose all 3 toss-ups, you still have a 50% win rate, and are therefore ranked properly for your current skill level.


Scyonite wrote:Try and enlighten your mind to the parts of the game you've put scrubbed away as unimportant. The very thing that's keeping you in platinum is this. You won't regard any other important aspect, besides mechanics, of the game as important while they truly still are. You have to let go of your beliefs. (Or your short-sightedness of only looking at the presentation of the game, and not at its core). They keep you in platinum.


Scyonite wrote:In order to get to champ one cannot keep focussing on their teammates for blaming their losses. Getting into champ is not about bettering what you're good at. It's about finding out what you're not good at and making that better. At some point you can't progress in this game only focussing on what you're good at. You will have to become a more balanced player, which will inherently work better with teammates, in order to get further. A mindset of "my teammates did this wrong" effectively works against that very thing all diamond players want.

A lot of players simply play the game with a limited mindset regarding teamplay. They've always played this game thinking about their own (mechanical) skill. Bettering this skill gets them through Silver, Gold, Platinum and places them somewhere in Diamond. These players have always kept in mind that they need to be superstar of the match in order for the match to be good. The champ rank is sitting right around the corner and it's saying "you better learn to work in a team, any team if you want to solo queue". Quite a different mindset simply is needed to advance further. This thread has been the epitome of champ players trying to tell the ones that own the former mindset something needs to change.


Doomstrike wrote:The thing about all these threads that complain about everyone. It's not that the teammates suck. It's that you aren't compatible with them. Some people are more aggressive, others defensive. Some just play more controlled game. All these will make your teammate the worst possible people if they clash with your playstyle and you refuse to adapt while making them god's if the complement yours.


Scyonite wrote:I think this mentality of "my teammates are bad" actually stems from the complainer not realizing they should try to adapt or them not caring about the adaptability of their play. Not everyone is compatible with each other, you owe it to yourself and your teammates to try and adapt to them though. This ensures you get the best experience, in turn. Even one player in a team not realizing this can have detrimental results and now it's actually the complainer that's really the achilles heel of a team, however good his/her mechanics may be.


Scyonite wrote:I don't necessarily win in Platinum because of mechanics. I don't win in Champion because of mechanics. I win in Champion because I'm a balanced player. I know how to apply my mechanics to a certain standard while also being able to be sufficiently rotationally observant and having the ability to apply myself rotationally.


Scyonite wrote:You need to shift your attention away from what should be happening and what you could be doing into how you can work with your team. It doesn't require crazy mechanical skill to get anywhere, it requires you to take a fresh and broad look at your team, without immediately assuming they're worse than you.


Scyonite wrote:Players that think individual (mechanical) skill is what decides how this game works are delusional. You play this game with one to two other people. Winning a match comes down to what team is better at reading the pitch (including the team itself), better at applying its talents and better at creating and capturing opportunities, the latter of which you really need a coordinated team for, but once you do any team like this beats a team that is incapable of the same.

Imagine every single football player in a 11v11 match thinking their team is shit. Every player trying to outdo his/her own team individually, do you know how uncoordinated this would look? Rocket League is no different. Your team is uncoordinated because you might be limiting your team's capability of teamplay by thinking you have to do it all.


Midremit wrote:I only got out of platinum (october/november 2017) after I realised how to defend those super insane ceiling shots or air drags. Pretty easy though, you wait above your goal/at the back wall until he's almost there... He's then out of boost and completely out of position so you can start a counter attack after you've had the easiest of blocks. It's also the reason why you never see those attempts being succesful after platinum/diamond (it happens on occasion there). It's proper defending that gets you ranked up, or at least doesn't get you demoted.

You're really mistaken if you think that aerial play is the most important skill or whatever.


Scyonite wrote:The general consensus is that I see disbalanced teamplay happening, which stems from you not trusting your own teammate.

0:21. You try to start the counterattack here, which is perfectly fine, unfortunately your hit got sent back, your teammate will now think it's his turn to initiate the counterattack. He should be in a better position to counterattack their counterattack. What went wrong in the play and caused to you some distress after is that you still went for the second touch, while your teammate is under the correct assumption that you should be in a recovery rotation.

0:31. Didn't really have a negative outcome, but again a mismatch in expectations. Your teammate has just taken the ball from an angle you believe you can also take as an offensive play and you're right in thinking that, but because of the current situation there's no need to rush your teammate and your team, he's just gotten boost, and you don't. He does have the right of way in taking the opportunity here.

1:01. So, you've relieved your team of all the pressure which is very good, and you want to take action in the next play. Unfortunately you were out of boost, that can happen after a good play, so you decide to go for the boost but it takes a bit longer to get it than expected, because of that happening you can't take action in the next play, given that that next play is likely to happen before you get the boost. Your teammate wants to act on the ball instead and he does, which is perfectly fine here. But if you'd either correctly landed and went for the play or rotated back immediately to get boost once you didn't have boost your teammate would've gotten a cleaner experience in making the choice to go for the play. You essentially faked him out for a few seconds and belated your teams play by a few seconds.

1:35. The ball is shot directly in your direction, so you try to cover it with no to little lateral momentum. Even though you'd just you hit your teammate in this play I might have still let that ball go without any try of saving it, potentially only able to fake out your teammate; your teammate would be a bit more likely to make the right play if he'd seen you weren't going to try and defend. What essentially cost you the goal was you not trusting your teammate. If you did, then he could've made the right play. You see him turn to right, right until the point he sees you jump, correctly identifying not to go for a double commit, unfortunately the outcome was set in stone because he couldn't go.

2:28. You get challenged before you do challenge and the ball goes past you. That can happen. You drive back downfield towards and try to save it with a very questionable angle though, your teammate does have a better angle here. I'm not sure if he wanted to go, but you did cause him to not to be able to go.

2:36 Your teammate has to take over and even after his first hit he still the right to take the play. You trying to take the play here causes your teammate to be out of position. Rotating directly behind him and cover the next play would've been the better option.

3:01. Good and fortunate cheat. Here you do identify your teammate to be in a better position right after you hit it and you trust him to score it. You also covered your recovery rotation well by immediately going back.

4:07. He does make an incredible play, he baits the opponent team into double committing and still gets it over them. This was the most important time in the game you could've scored the winning goal. So, my question here is: did you not trust your teammate to actually make it over them? I wouldn't say it's bad you didn't see this opportunity, 'cause you do need experience to identify that that play was a very positive one for your team, but maybe going in with a more trustful mindset would've put you in the perfect spot to score that potential goal.

You believe you can't trust your teammates because of bad prior experiences, but your distrust actually causes them not to be able to prove to you they can be trusted. Your assumption of them being bad causes them not to be able to show or take opportunities with the good they can do. The problem does start with you here, you have to assume your teammates got their MMR for a reason. Essentially you have to give your teammates the possibility to make plays too and be their cover instead. You might have to become a bit more passive in your play and actively think about your teammate's angles and their opportunities too, however bad they might seem to you. Your mistakes aren't too severe for this rank right here but make no mistake in thinking you're not making mistakes, because you are, but so does your teammate too, he does.

The best way for you to improve would either be watch lots of replays from your teammate's angle, or find a teammate of similar skill to play with (he has to be rotationally sound) and ask him to point out where he believes he's got a better angle but was not able to capitalize on his angle.


Doomstrike wrote:The biggest factors to moving up in ranked is situational awareness. I see the ball, I can hit the ball but should I really hit it, should I wait to by time or retreat. A lot of this analysis was proving that point. Just because you can hit it doesn't mean you should, just like not every pass made is worth over committing too if the outcome is to risky.


Hydroxyde wrote:Whenever you rotate, you must give space to your teammate. There are several defensive plays on your replay, where you correctly rotated towards the back post, but immediately went forward to the front post or went on to "HELP" your teammate on the corner. This is one of the more dangerous plays at any level. If your teammate happens to lost on the clear showdown you will both be beaten. If your teammate makes a bad clear and ends up beeing a high ball towards your box... You will both be beaten again. The only sane way to defend is to give your teammate space and wait for the play to unfold without giving position.

Try not to smother your teammate. I know you are doing the right thing by retreating afterwards, but first, you are wasting boost to go for a ball not meant for you. Second, you are now not covering another position on the field, and third! in various plays you actually scared your teammate and he left the ball or didn't react as intented.

Overall try trusting them a bit more, even if they miss, you will not be the one to blame for not being where you were supposed to be.


Scyonite wrote:You're smothering your teammate, you're causing a team disbalance and your mindset keeps you from seeing that very flaw. It does not matter that your teammate is the lowrider, it matters that your mindset might cause him/her to be restricted to "lowriding".


Tentacles wrote:Ok so I examined this one, it is very easy to see why you are stuck in a lower rank. You have 0 trust for your teammate, your play style is go at it one at a time that is not how rotation or team based games work. Doubles and standard are about rotation, if you don't rotate the enemy team will have the ball much longer meaning they are much more likely to win.

You want to sit there and blame your teammates but look at that list in 2 minutes of time. (Plenty mistakes)

And before you say the other players are ranks ahead of you which is your new argument. Phane was just garbage, and the other guy constantly cut him off and missed easy stuff. Definitely not high level players.


Scyonite wrote:Your limitation is not your ball control. It's your decisions and your teammate distrust. You don't necessarily need mechanics of a higher rank to leave lower ranks behind. That does not make sense. Each rank has its own spectrum of mechanical skill of players. The fact that you perceive you need mechanics of a higher rank to get out of plat, actually is the result of your disbalanced team dynamics, which stem from your distrust. If you want to fix your problem, you'll have to admit to your own short-comings, which are choices your teammate can't depend on, because you don't trust him/her. Once you start to identify where and when to rightfully and justifiably trust your teammate you will find that your matches become so much more balanced.

I understand your perception of the game, but your perception is limited to what you perceive, and your scope of perception does not include your teammate. This is the root of the problem.


Scyonite wrote:Your perception of your teammate is biased, you're unaware of the repercussions of your actions unto your teammate. Your very mindset of believing you need to do everything alone is utterly flawed and very detrimental to your team. It's a team game for Flying Spaghettimonster's sake. Your opponent team probably often wins because they're performing as a team, not as two or three one man armies that think they need to carry their teammate(s) with their own flawed justifications for believing so. It just can't be, statistically, that your teammate always is the underdog of the whole game.


Midremit wrote:Look there's a thin line between trusting them 100%, and be ready for both possible outcomes. Either he does something good or bad, your position should be something where you can react properly to both. (in platinum it'll usually be the bad outcome, granted, but there's no reason that should result in a goal if you're ready for both outcomes)

If I'm teamed up with someone who thinks he's a god in playing alone we'll end up losing. Skill is being able to create goal on your own as well as recognising situations where a pass is more appropriate.




FlashPower, this is four thousand words of legitimate advice and analysis you could've used to come to understand in what way you can improve and achieve higher ranks...
Ball curve lobbyist!

NoOne-NBA wrote:Quite the opposite, there's usually somebody who steps up to the plate, and does something more stupid than anything I was able to imagine, even though I have always had a very active imagination.


I'm a gold stuck in C2d4
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby NoOne-NBA on Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:24 am

Midremit wrote:...I'm also going to drop this summary of tips here, may help you on your quest up to better games.

I don't whether I should feel inadequate because your post was four times longer than mine, or superior because I actually typed all of mine. :lol:
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby Midremit on Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:19 pm

NoOne-NBA wrote:
Midremit wrote:...I'm also going to drop this summary of tips here, may help you on your quest up to better games.

I don't whether I should feel inadequate because your post was four times longer than mine, or superior because I actually typed all of mine. :lol:


Hey I went through the trouble of finding that post, don't leave that out of your consideration :D

For what it's worth, I think your most recent advice complemented that long ass post from Scyonite, which is fairly incredible after reading the whole thing through and considering everything what was said in there.

You've basically summed up (probably unconsciously) the whole game as well when you said psyonix are offering us to make choices. The whole comletitive gameplay is about precisely that, making the right choice will have you rank up... :dork:
Ball curve lobbyist!

NoOne-NBA wrote:Quite the opposite, there's usually somebody who steps up to the plate, and does something more stupid than anything I was able to imagine, even though I have always had a very active imagination.


I'm a gold stuck in C2d4
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby zGreenMachine- on Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:53 pm

windarts wrote:So, tell me, please, if I constantly get bad and unskilled teammates versus people who actually know their s**t, how am I ever going to escape this "MMR" hell? How can I advance in the competitive rankings if the game constantly matches me with such people on my team?


Ah, so this is one of those "my teammates always suck!!!" threads. Gotcha. I was hoping it wasn't but at the same time I'm not surprised it is.

The only advice I'm going to offer is that you'll never escape MMR HELL playing with that mentality. Nothing will change as long as you continue to believe the system is rigged against you.

I'm not going to waste time arguing with someone who believes everything is out of their control. If you want actual advice on how to improve your skills and playstyle feel free to ask. Otherwise, I'm out of here 8-)
[yes because AlexCuse44 said so]
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby windarts on Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:49 pm

zGreenMachine- wrote:Ah, so this is one of those "my teammates always suck!!!" threads. Gotcha. I was hoping it wasn't but at the same time I'm not surprised it is.

The only advice I'm going to offer is that you'll never escape MMR HELL playing with that mentality. Nothing will change as long as you continue to believe the system is rigged against you.

I'm not going to waste time arguing with someone who believes everything is out of their control. If you want actual advice on how to improve your skills and playstyle feel free to ask. Otherwise, I'm out of here 8-)

Sorry but wrong, you appear to have completely misunderstood the post or are unable to understand it from your perspective. You weren't obligated to post anything at all in the first place - was your choice. And I think my mentality is quite fine - I always try to reach out to teammates and give them advice, be polite, whatever makes them feel relaxed. In return I get toxic behavior and insults without any reason whatsoever, I mute the player and continue to play with their horrible play styles, constant bumps on me, ball stealing just to lose it and missing every pass I make on target.

If this is the mentality you're referring to can you please point out the mistakes in it so I can take note?

NoOne-NBA wrote:Psyonix isn't MAKING anybody do anything.
They are simply offering choices.

Apologies, but by the way the game is designed to function as whole and the ranking/mmr system it uses you can easily see they've basically enforced this sort of thing as a normal occurrence. Try to see it from this point of view and I'm sure a person like you would understand what I'm saying.

NoOne-NBA wrote:For any match where you draw another good player, giving your team TWO good players (GG), the other team can only match you, at best, and will have a 3:4 chance of being inferior due to having at least one bad player (B) on their team.

With more than 15k people in playlist for 2v2, I get matched with the same person in team, which simply cannot hit the ball for the life of them, 4 times in a row. In 16 games I got only 2 decent teammates, one of which I had 2 games on the opposite side.

NoOne-NBA wrote:Your team should expect to win 3 of the four possible matchups, with the 4th being a tossup.

GG GG Tossup
GG GB Win
GG BG Win
GG BB Win

Even when you draw a bad player (GB) your team should still expect a 50:50 win ratio, assuming you can split the tossup matches.
GB GG Loss
GB GB Tossup
GB BG Tossup
GB BB Win

The overall expectations for your team are 4W-1L-3T, if everything plays out exactly as expected.

Can you provide me with a link to a valid source for the information in both quotations above?

Midremit wrote:@OP, do you get competitive games or do you lose 13-0? If it's the former, that's the whole purpose of the game. It's the very concept that psyonix used to build the whole game around. Just gotta learn how to play around your mates's mistakes, anywhere, anytime.

I'm also going to drop this summary of tips here, may help you on your quest up to better games.

In most competitive matches I'm the only one that scores as only I hit the ball in a purposeful direction. :cry:

I've reviewed the tips, but I'm afraid this is nothing but basics, how do you think I even win some games with these people? Give me some credit here, too. But thank you, in any case.


Maybe I should simply give up on the idea of a pleasant experience in this game...?
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Re: Very bad user experience, psyonix help!

Postby NoOne-NBA on Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:54 pm

windarts wrote:I always try to reach out to teammates and give them advice, be polite, whatever makes them feel relaxed. In return I get toxic behavior and insults without any reason whatsoever...

That right there is your biggest problem.
Nobody "feels relaxed" when their teammate is actively looking for, and pointing out, all of their faults.
They feel defensive, and will lash out in whatever manner is available.
In this case, the only two options available to them are to lash out verbally, or play for the other team.

windarts wrote:Can you provide me with a link to a valid source for the information in both quotations above?

That entire post is deductions, using basic statistics and probabilities.
There is no real "source" for it.

It is an extremely simplistic model, given that it only allows for two possibilities of teammate, and doesn't account for differences in play style.
In reality, your teammates will be spread out within a range, and may have good and bad games.
Many of them may perform better with other players than they do with you, which will allow them to have a similar rank to your own, in spite of appearing to be sub-par.
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