Bronze: The other Diamond

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Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby spaceboy on Fri Jul 06, 2018 7:49 pm

The thing about this that is so frustrating, is that you can't increase your skill gradually, and progress gradually, perhaps reach silver or gold and then just stay there if your skill is consistent (at least not in solo 3's). No, you have to develop your skill to a high Silver or Gold just to make it out of B1D1, where I have been stuck for around 5 months or so now (in solo 3's).

I have plenty of games where I play significantly better than some of my other games, and theoretically, I should be win positive that way and move up, but 'significantly better' is simply no match for Platinum/Diamond/Champ level players doing air dribbles off the ceiling, as well as lesser moves that are still many ranks above my skill level.

It also doesn't help that the smurf distribution is not equal across my team vs. the opposing team, IOW, it seams that 8/10 times, the other team has the power smurfs, and about 5/10 times I'm stuck with squirrels trying to 'hoard the nut' in their nest in the corner.

Anyway, my skill leaves much to be desired, but I just can't compete in any way with players, even a single one, that is 3-5 levels above me, and neither can my team.

/end-rant
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby Scyonite on Sat Jul 07, 2018 3:54 am

spaceboy wrote:The thing about this that is so frustrating, is that you can't increase your skill gradually, and progress gradually


I disagree and agree. Your skill will always increase gradually, even if change is fast. You don't become better at this game in an instant, unless you start watching "Why you suck at Rocket League" videos. Your ranked progress will likely still be very non-gradual yes. I think that's because the game has been out for some time now, and people have had three years to train on certain aspects. All players in bronze and silver essentially understand or are able to do some part of the game, and lack awareness/ability in others. This makes that experience highly variant.

spaceboy wrote:perhaps reach silver or gold and then just stay there if your skill is consistent (at least not in solo 3's). No, you have to develop your skill to a high Silver or Gold just to make it out of B1D1, where I have been stuck for around 5 months or so now (in solo 3's).


I can't say I agree with this, although I do understand why you feel this way. You're focussing too much on the mechanical aspect of the game. You think you have to be able to outperform opponents by sheer control and ability. But solo standard is probably exactly the playlist sheer ability is the least important. In solo standard rotation, spacing yourself, avoiding double/triple commits, looking for and going for opportunities and team-play are key. Not the ability to do a ceiling shot, although highly useful probably.

spaceboy wrote:I have plenty of games where I play significantly better than some of my other games, and theoretically, I should be win positive that way and move up, but 'significantly better' is simply no match for Platinum/Diamond/Champ level players doing air dribbles off the ceiling, as well as lesser moves that are still many ranks above my skill level.


So again, ability will help them, but it won't make them win. You're probably not punishing them on their weaknesses, which probably is teamplay. If you adjust your playstyle to be really adaptive (to opponents AND teammates) and you space yourself from your teammates you should be able to weed out a lot of plays. You can't expect to get all of them, but mechanics is not where it's at, unless they're heavily above the ranked grade you're currently playing at.

spaceboy wrote:It also doesn't help that the smurf distribution is not equal across my team vs. the opposing team, IOW, it seams that 8/10 times, the other team has the power smurfs, and about 5/10 times I'm stuck with squirrels trying to 'hoard the nut' in their nest in the corner.


This problem I'll give ya. Smurfs are an issue. The thing is, you're on a team and you take a spot on your team, there's five spots left to be filled by potential smurfs. Your own team is now at a disadvantage of receiving a smurf.

I have a smurf myself. Why? 'Cause my real life friends that are not champs won't like the experience of playing with me. The reality is that when they join me, we mostly play against high diamonds (in unranked). We don't get people "in the middle". My gold/plat friend just can't cope. Therefore I have an account that does not represent my skill, I hold back and let my friends play, but I will get the occasional smurf play yes. From what I've seen in bronze and silver standard, I can accurately say that these players are a mess. There's no accuracy to their game, all they think about is the ball. And these players are easily played by simply playing the ball over them. You have to take opportunity when it arises immediately, but you also need to show restraint and control when it's not your turn. Playing that way you can easily win these matches. In our placements with my friend we could consistently bra71l teams. LUL. We'd score an own goal if we had to and control the match after. So, sorry for smurfing, but the current state of the game basically forces me to if I want to play with friends.

In all honesty, maybe Psyonix should make a smurfing playlist. Teams that have a smurf can apply on this playlist and will be placed in matches where one player is clearly better than another (in the teams). That way smurfing in the normal playlists can be punished.
zGreenMachine wrote:
JHZER wrote:I'm really struggling with RL, the game doesn't excite me and that's why I don't wanna stream it or do gameplay videos. I need something new and different to the game but I know only cosmetics are added which makes me sad.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby spaceboy on Sat Jul 07, 2018 5:20 am

Scyonite wrote: /snip/


Seems like good advice, thanks.

One thing about good smurfs is that they are so quick on the draw and always seem to get to the ball first, and they can also dribble around me and various things so moving straight in for a block usually doesn't work.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby Scyonite on Sat Jul 07, 2018 6:09 am

That's because the instant a champ player sees a free opportunity this player will take it. There's really nothing to do about it if you can't block them at that instant. You will have to block them at a later time when their trajectory becomes more predictable. Take in mind that the general advice I gave will probably not be truly represented in tiers as low as Bronze because all the players are highly unpredictable. But the higher you get the more you will see what I mean. Truth be told I'm not even that sure advice from a certain tier really helps a lot if the player is far from that tier. E.g. saying to a gold to not always immediately challenge because an opponent might fake while in gold fakes aren't really that existent yet. Just take note that scouting for opportunities, letting your teammates do their thing but back them up and adapt and space accordingly will probably help you in any tier.
zGreenMachine wrote:
JHZER wrote:I'm really struggling with RL, the game doesn't excite me and that's why I don't wanna stream it or do gameplay videos. I need something new and different to the game but I know only cosmetics are added which makes me sad.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby NoOne-NBA on Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:30 am

Scyonite wrote:The thing is, you're on a team and you take a spot on your team, there's five spots left to be filled by potential smurfs. Your own team is now at a disadvantage of receiving a smurf.

The inverse of that is equally true however, and even more so in Solo Standard.

Assuming a given player really IS better than their current ranking, that player's team is guaranteed to have ONE good player in every game, and will only have a 2:5 chance of getting placed with bad players, while the other team has a 3:5 chance of pulling bad players.
When you calculate the probability of having TWO good players on a team, the results skew even farther toward the player than the opposing team.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby littlebigleg on Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:07 pm

it don't matter ,The only folks that have an advantage is the clever people that team up to play a team based game.If you solo Que in doubles or standard and expect great team mates every time ,You are totally deluded ,Solo standard is a different animal ,But playing that league with any sort of high expectations is just plain stupid! The ranking system is harsh but its pretty accurate.We are at our ranks because that is where we belong.This place is full of moaning sore losers ,Stop crying foul all the bloody time,And try enjoying the thrill of the game win or defeat ,It don't really matter you bunch of big girl blouses !!!!!!!
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby spaceboy on Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:13 pm

littlebigleg wrote:We are at our ranks because that is where we belong.

That logic doesn't work with smurfs, though. You can't say I belong in B1D1 when I'm playing against a team with one guy doing air dribbles off the ceiling and the other two passing the ball across the net like FIFA superstars and doing line drive shots, while my team is still trying to figure out where the gas pedal is and trying not to hit the ball into our own net.

Ranking is not accurate against smurfs. It's totally inaccurate.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby littlebigleg on Mon Jul 09, 2018 12:34 pm

spaceboy wrote:
littlebigleg wrote:We are at our ranks because that is where we belong.

That logic doesn't work with smurfs, though. You can't say I belong in B1D1 when I'm playing against a team with one guy doing air dribbles off the ceiling and the other two passing the ball across the net like FIFA superstars and doing line drive shots, while my team is still trying to figure out where the gas pedal is and trying not to hit the ball into our own net.

Ranking is not accurate against smurfs. It's totally inaccurate.


name one player on here that has not encountered smurfs? i have played against plenty,We are all in the exact same league as each other and we all deal with the exact same shit as each other .If you are stuck in bronze,you might as well face facts.You just cant play the game very well
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby Tentacles on Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:04 pm

Bronze is in no way shape or form anywhere close to diamond.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby spaceboy on Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:13 pm

littlebigleg wrote:name one player on here that has not encountered smurfs? i have played against plenty,We are all in the exact same league as each other and we all deal with the exact same shit as each other .If you are stuck in bronze,you might as well face facts.You just cant play the game very well

It's not about encountering them, it's about the rank gap. The effect is much more punishing at the lowest levels.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby spaceboy on Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:15 pm

Tentacles wrote:Bronze is in no way shape or form anywhere close to diamond.

It was sarcasm..... This is about Diamond+ level smurfing in low level Bronze.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby Glassman94 on Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:02 pm

psyonix
Last edited by Glassman94 on Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby littlebigleg on Mon Jul 09, 2018 2:17 pm

as if these super good players hang about in bronze!it is six or seven wins out of it,just quit the fucking game already!
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby spaceboy on Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:11 pm

littlebigleg wrote:as if these super good players hang about in bronze!it is six or seven wins out of it,just quit the fucking game already!

You think this is just a once a month thing? This happens every day, every night....many, many times each day.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby DeviantFive0 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:15 am

I float between D3 and Champ1 on my steam account. I created a PS4 profile (because sometimes i like to relax on the bed and play instead). After my 10 placement matches i got ranked at Plat3 div 4, and then after 2 wins hit D1.

I very much doubt there are diamond players messing around in bronze.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby spaceboy on Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:55 am

DeviantFive0 wrote:I float between D3 and Champ1 on my steam account. I created a PS4 profile (because sometimes i like to relax on the bed and play instead). After my 10 placement matches i got ranked at Plat3 div 4, and then after 2 wins hit D1.

I very much doubt there are diamond players messing around in bronze.

Well, what rank are people who can do the following moves:

* Drive off the ceiling, catch a ball, and air dribble all the way to the goal while doing spin moves

* Routinely come off of walls and line drive shots to goal

* Air dribbles to goal from everywhere

* Consistently hit hard long shots back to your side

* Consistently ground dribble and ball hop around you

* Fly just above a ball and downstrike it hard into goal

* (when 3 are together) Constantly (and quickly) placing ball in front of net followed by all 3 cars moving in like a brick wall to put it in.......every.... single.... freaking.... time. lol

I've watched the pro tournys and some various stuff on Twitch, but I really don't know what levels one will start to see certain moves. I do know that when asked in chat what rank they are, some will say 'Champ'. I tend to take their word for it when we're getting turned into creamed corn. lol

I think I will start recording video of the smurf games and upload them so people who don't really see this stuff can take a look, and have an idea of what us lowleys are dealing with.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby Tentacles on Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:33 am

Ah if we are talking about lame smurfs.... Psyonix is terrible about doing anything with smurfing, it's been requested since the game came out and no changes have been made. It wouldn't be that hard, if the rank is too different go off the highest persons MMR and require a full team. Add a 20 hour play limit before ranked play is available. Add a winstreak system, if people are winning 10 games in a row they probably don't belong in that rank and the people affected should have their MMR adjusted to not take as big a hit. But of course Psyonix doesn't give a fuck so nothing will change.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby Burito101 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:13 am

Your claims are absolutely worthless and you suck unless you upload some so called smurfing in bronze.

Its always the same shit, people thinking theyre getting smurfed when in reality theyre actually just trash.


Been playing this game for years now and I think I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been playing against smurfs.
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby Burito101 on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:26 am

spaceboy wrote:
DeviantFive0 wrote:I float between D3 and Champ1 on my steam account. I created a PS4 profile (because sometimes i like to relax on the bed and play instead). After my 10 placement matches i got ranked at Plat3 div 4, and then after 2 wins hit D1.

I very much doubt there are diamond players messing around in bronze.

Well, what rank are people who can do the following moves:

* Drive off the ceiling, catch a ball, and air dribble all the way to the goal while doing spin moves

* Routinely come off of walls and line drive shots to goal

* Air dribbles to goal from everywhere

* Consistently hit hard long shots back to your side

* Consistently ground dribble and ball hop around you

* Fly just above a ball and downstrike it hard into goal

* (when 3 are together) Constantly (and quickly) placing ball in front of net followed by all 3 cars moving in like a brick wall to put it in.......every.... single.... freaking.... time. lol

I've watched the pro tournys and some various stuff on Twitch, but I really don't know what levels one will start to see certain moves. I do know that when asked in chat what rank they are, some will say 'Champ'. I tend to take their word for it when we're getting turned into creamed corn. lol

I think I will start recording video of the smurf games and upload them so people who don't really see this stuff can take a look, and have an idea of what us lowleys are dealing with.



* Drive off the ceiling, catch a ball, and air dribble all the way to the goal while doing spin moves
-Cherry picking one instance where this happened I assume

Routinely come off of walls and line drive shots to goal
-I'll give you this, but then again its your own fault for not having good defense

* Air dribbles to goal from everywhere
-I doubt literally every single game is like this which is what you're talking like.

* Consistently hit hard long shots back to your side
-Sounds like you're passing the ball to them and theyre just doing a basic front flip to get it out.

* Consistently ground dribble and ball hop around you
-Exaggeration and cherry picking games. Also its not hard to ground dribble if you put forward like 30min of your time into freeplay focusing on that.

*Fly just above a ball and downstrike it hard into goal
-Cherry picking games

* (when 3 are together) Constantly (and quickly) placing ball in front of net followed by all 3 cars moving in like a brick wall to put it in.......every.... single.... freaking.... time. lol
-Thats not even good gameplay. Whose guarding their net in case it gets cleared? They're playing trash defense and over committing and youre claiming theyre champs LMAO
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Re: Bronze: The other Diamond

Postby spaceboy on Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:56 am

Burito101 wrote:* Drive off the ceiling, catch a ball, and air dribble all the way to the goal while doing spin moves
-Cherry picking one instance where this happened I assume


I wouldn't waste time complaining about an isolated event.

* Air dribbles to goal from everywhere
-I doubt literally every single game is like this which is what you're talking like.


I did not say it was every game, but it is often (in solo 3's). Supposedly the point of playing solo is so you don't get ganged up on, but it provides no defense against smurfing.

* (when 3 are together) Constantly (and quickly) placing ball in front of net followed by all 3 cars moving in like a brick wall to put it in.......every.... single.... freaking.... time. lol
-Thats not even good gameplay. Whose guarding their net in case it gets cleared? They're playing trash defense and over committing and youre claiming theyre champs LMAO

What they're doing is creaming us. When your opponents are so bad that you don't need a defense, what do you do? You go full offense and hammer them into the ground. The really good smurfs don't need a defense because they're too busy scoring on us.
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