Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

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Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby OsoMako on Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:10 pm

While I disagree with the reasoning for removing non-standard arenas from competitive, that same reasoning doesn't hold water when looking at the casual playlist. Let's review what the news update said:

Psyonix wrote:We see Rocket League as a digital sport. As such, we think standardization is important and necessary to provide a level playing field and foster consistent competition across all skill levels and events.

We introduced non-standard arenas partly to provide variety for pro play, but they have not been embraced. Given the success of RLCS and Rocket League Esports in general, we no longer feel that map variety is needed or appropriate for the competitive scene.

Rocket Labs showed us that only a narrow set of arena designs would be well-received by the Rocket League community. Even the designs that more closely resembled conventional Arenas (like Octagon and Starbase) have been extremely divisive. Ultimately, the alternate layouts we devised simply didn’t add enough strategically to offset the corresponding loss in predictability and muscle memory.

I wonder if you'll notice that none of this references casual play and casual players. I also want to point out that non-standard arenas were not "embraced", yet were also never forced on any RLCS competition outside of Midseason Mayhem. So the maps were only seen very sporadically. Why would you bother practicing and getting to know the nuances of non-standard maps as a pro if you didn't REALLY have to practice them for tournaments? But I digress.

Psyonix wrote:After thorough discussion of the above points, your feedback, and analysis of the data gathered from our Map Preferences system, we decided to focus on Standard Arenas going forward. We aren’t willing to force the adoption of non-Standard Arenas in professional competition, and we want a consistent set of rules and interactions for our entire community -- from 'Bronze I' rookies all the way up to those playing in the RLCS World Championship.

While we still value the variety that non-Standard Arenas brought to the map rotation, we no longer think the benefits outweighs the downsides they bring.

Bronze I rookies are still in competitive. Sorry, but if you're in casual, you're not looking to make an immediate impact on the pro scene. You're looking to have fun. And as such, I think that non-standard arenas bring a special variety to Rocket League that it desperately needs to stay relevant to anyone who DOESN'T want to go pro.

I'm not saying that all non-standard arenas are good. In fact, I think Wasteland and Starbase ARC are two of the weakest non-standard arenas they've released. But I think they've earned their place and are a great break from the norm. Cosmic is, on the other hand, a wonderful map, that with some minor tweaks (more standardization of the outer walls) can be a great addition to the casual scene. Neo Tokyo, in its non-standard form, is at the same level as Cosmic -- though Cosmic could be argued to be more "competitive" as it offers more fluid gameplay and a height advantage instead of a height disadvantage for the defenders.

I don't mind if you disagree that these non-standard arenas are good. My point is that the reasoning given out by Psyonix to remove these arenas from casual is completely unfounded in logic. Casual is not just a warm-up grounds for Competitive. For some it is, but for others it's for escaping the toxic, stressful nature of competitive -- to have a good time messing around on Rocket League.
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby zGreenMachine- on Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:22 pm

I would like to see non-standard maps (and Cosmic!) in casual playlists, and for the most part I agree with all of that ^

Just remember they tried putting Labs maps in the unranked rotation a few months ago and people absolutely lost it :|
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby Tentacles on Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:57 pm

How can you disagree with the massive amounts of votes?
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby OsoMako on Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:11 pm

Tentacles wrote:How can you disagree with the massive amounts of votes?

I don't disagree with them. Like I said, I think Wasteland and Starbase ARC are two of the weakest non-standard arenas. It barely surprises me they get more dislikes. But I don't think they deserve to be taken out of casual. They need to release better non-standard arenas--more of them, more often, and with different twists -- in order to find ones that the community embraces. To hell with Rocket Labs as a playlist; it doesn't have enough variety, and the devs have failed to update any of the maps on it in over a year to address any community feedback about the maps. That being said, they need to go back to making those other Labs maps work using that feedback and introduce them back to the casual pool of maps one at a time after making said changes.

Hell, add in a map vote at the end of the round if you must, but don't take the maps out! :x
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby NoOne-NBA on Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:33 pm

I just want Psyonix to put all the effort they are putting into retexturing the same stupid box over and over into fixing the Steam Workshop, so it actually works properly.

The community can make much better maps than Psyonix will ever dream of, and can do so at a much quicker pace.
All we need is a way to distribute them, and the ability to actually play them.
What good is a tool that allows you to MAKE maps, if you can't PLAY those maps?
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby Mutschuk on Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:27 am

Generally I agree but i don't think wasteland is weak. It's my favorite map tbh
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby NoOne-NBA on Thu Sep 07, 2017 7:06 am

Mutschuk wrote:Generally I agree but i don't think wasteland is weak. It's my favorite map tbh

Kiss it goodbye then.
They're taking IT out of the game too.
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby OsoMako on Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:24 am

Still makes me mad that they took out Neo Tokyo. That map was so much fun. Maybe there are some hard bounces to play, but it's not as repetitive and boring as the standard arena. And you can aerial for years before hitting the roof. I loved going for monster aerials on that map. :(
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby littlebigleg on Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:15 am

Mutschuk wrote:Generally I agree but i don't think wasteland is weak. It's my favorite map tbh


same here
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby NoOne-NBA on Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:28 am

OsoMako wrote:I loved going for monster aerials on that map. :(

I still do.
I just can't do it in public anymore.

I was already playing more private matches, than public ones, when they took it out.
They're just pushing me farther and farther out to the fringe, with each update.
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby Doomstrike on Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:39 pm

Yah Wastland Night was my favorite map. I don't get why people have such a hard time with it. Everytime i play with people I remind them. The ball will roll up the sides and bounce off the back board. all corner shots will roll to the goal keep that in mind and the map is ton of fun...until you driblle and try to flick only to realise you are driving down hill and no mater how long your car you will miss it unless you fly up a tad bit on your flick :mrgreen:

But its still my favorite
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby Bob Fizzle on Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:30 pm

Tentacles wrote:How can you disagree with the massive amounts of votes?


Because I have my own opinions and am not a sheep.
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby Tentacles on Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:34 pm

OsoMako wrote:While I disagree with the reasoning for removing non-standard arenas from competitive.
I was referring to this part. How can you disagree with the massive amounts of dislikes on these maps? Is your one vote more important than the majority of the community?
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby Bob Fizzle on Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:42 pm

Tentacles wrote:
OsoMako wrote:While I disagree with the reasoning for removing non-standard arenas from competitive.
I was referring to this part. How can you disagree with the massive amounts of dislikes on these maps? Is your one vote more important than the majority of the community?


Because I can disagree with whoever and whatever I want. I don't have to agree with an opinion just because it is the majority opinion because I have my own ideas and am not a sheep.
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby OsoMako on Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:05 pm

Tentacles wrote:
OsoMako wrote:While I disagree with the reasoning for removing non-standard arenas from competitive.
I was referring to this part. How can you disagree with the massive amounts of dislikes on these maps? Is your one vote more important than the majority of the community?

Because I don't think playing non-standard arenas hurts your ability to play the standard map -- as is implied by saying it harms muscle memory and prediction skills. I think it actually aids your ability to read strange bounces (corners on ARC) and how to play off of angles that you wouldn't normally play from (starting aerials from the plat ramps on Neo); leading to you being a better player in general.

I also don't think there was any choice but to dislike one or both of the non-standard maps. What else are you going to dislike? A standard map that has poor FPS for you? That's about the only other ones you would really put on Dislikes. The others are just reskins of the exact same level. So if you dislike one, you dislike them all. By having so few non-standards, it swung votes against them to appear like a heavy vote against non-standards. I'm not saying there aren't people who dislike all non-standards, but that it's a bit unfair to reference the dislikes in the context that they have.
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby Tentacles on Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:22 pm

My downvotes were the fps heavy aquadome and the not fun starbase. And I know a lot of other ps4 users had aquadome down voted as well.
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Re: Keep Non-Standard Arenas in Casual, Add Cosmic

Postby NoOne-NBA on Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:41 pm

OsoMako wrote:What else are you going to dislike?

The worthless POS that is Utopia Colisseum, for me.

I've been complaining about that one from the day the first version launched, and all they've done is add more versions of it, all with the same heavily flawed walls.
If you want to talk about something that "adversely affects the fairness of the competitive environment" how about walls that completely block out vision for SOME of the player base, depending on their particular camera settings?
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