Rewards

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Rewards

Postby Uncledave23 on Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:58 am

Im getting fed up with RL now ive spent 100+ on keys for crates and the best item i got was a 3/4 key boost, No explosions, Mystery decal or good painted wheels. I logged into the stream last night and didnt get a single item from 4/5 hours watching, My girlfriend logged in and got a drop after 20 minutes.

Yes i know im not going to get great items constantly and i dont expect that but just 1 or 2 would be great after spending so much money on the game or an item when its advertised for watching a stream.

Is it just me or are there other people playing the game with similar experience to what ive just explained?
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Re: Rewards

Postby Skaldy on Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:39 am

Opening crates is for people who a) have lots of spare cash b) like gambling c) don't mind massively overpaying for the latest shiny stuff.

Go to the Steam Community Trading subforum and see what you could have just bought for those 100 keys. An inventory full of painted & certified items from older crates, that's what.
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Re: Rewards

Postby Fish_Goes_Moo on Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:25 pm

I never get anything good from crates. Only time I open crates is when I have a spare key or two and there is nothing I want, so give it a shot in the hope of making a couple of keys. If there's a specific item I want, then I just spend the keys directly on the item. Even more expensive items like bubbly or party time can be got by selling crates if you are patient.

Streams I feel pretty lucky with, I normally get at least one drop every stream and got saffron apex a while back (think it was double drop weekend), not the greatest colour, but did pay for bubbly.
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Re: Rewards

Postby littlebigleg on Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:36 pm

i have had some good shit from creates ,but then i got the actual shit i wanted from trading. gota play the market..you could spend a thousand bucks and get nowt,you could buy one key and get a heatwave,thats gambling for you
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Re: Rewards

Postby Galactic Geek on Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:08 pm

The problem is that you have to understand the market to get the goods, and many players (myself included) don't understand it at all, even after trying. For example, measuring things by heatwave? Wha...?
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Re: Rewards

Postby AlexCuse44 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:20 am

Galactic Geek wrote:The problem is that you have to understand the market to get the goods, and many players (myself included) don't understand it at all, even after trying. For example, measuring things by heatwave? Wha...?


Only Xbox measures by heatwaves since they can't trade keys. Heatwave is their "key"
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Re: Rewards

Postby Galactic Geek on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:09 am

AlexCuse44 wrote:
Galactic Geek wrote:The problem is that you have to understand the market to get the goods, and many players (myself included) don't understand it at all, even after trying. For example, measuring things by heatwave? Wha...?


Only Xbox measures by heatwaves since they can't trade keys. Heatwave is their "key"

Yes, this I already know because I am on XBL. You have also failed to explain to me why they chose heatwave or how they even measure its value in relation to other things.
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Re: Rewards

Postby NoOne-NBA on Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:08 pm

Galactic Geek wrote:You have also failed to explain to me why they chose heatwave or how they even measure its value in relation to other things.

Heatwave was chosen because it was the most sought after item in the game, when the Xbox version launched, and was therefore the most expensive.
With no purchasable currency in the game, like there are on other platforms, in the form of keys, the barter system defaulted to using the item that demanded the most lesser items to obtain, as its relative currency.

The pricing guides out there, which list everything in "Heatwaves", are similar to the Kelley Blue Book prices.
They represent an average of what someone who currently owns a Heatwave might be willing to accept as a fair trade for it.
You will find some people who will accept less than "the going rate" for their Heatwave, if you have a particular item that person is seeking.
You will also find people who will hold out for more than "the going rate" because they don't really want to part with their Heatwave, unless you make it "worth it" to them by overpaying.
This same holds true for the lesser items.
What each person will consider a "fair trade" varies widely, depending on the desirability of the items in question, to the people involved in the trade.
The guides are there to give both participants a reasonable starting place for their negotiations.

The closest real life analogy I can give you, to the Rocket League economy, is the worldwide coin market.
Face value of any given coin is secondary to the intrinsic value of the metal they contain, the rarity/condition of the particular coin in question, and most importantly how desirable that particular coin is to the collector you happen to be dealing with at the time, whether you are the buyer or the seller during such a transaction.

Coin pricing, as seen in pricing guides, represents a starting place for negotiations, just like the Rocket League price guides do.
Whether you can find someone willing to sell you one at that price, or willing to buy your coin at that price, is subject to the whims of the specific people involved.
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Re: Rewards

Postby AlexCuse44 on Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:45 pm

Galactic Geek wrote:
AlexCuse44 wrote:
Galactic Geek wrote:The problem is that you have to understand the market to get the goods, and many players (myself included) don't understand it at all, even after trying. For example, measuring things by heatwave? Wha...?


Only Xbox measures by heatwaves since they can't trade keys. Heatwave is their "key"

Yes, this I already know because I am on XBL. You have also failed to explain to me why they chose heatwave or how they even measure its value in relation to other things.


I believe they choose heatwave because at the time is was the one of the most valuable items and probably the most widely known. As for how they determine the value, how do they determine the value of anything? Even keys! The way other items are valued in heatwaves is the idea of how many of this item would you trade for a heatwave, like how many of this would you trade for a key? Hope that helped :D

EDIT: Just saw NoOne's post so you should go with that
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Re: Rewards

Postby Galactic Geek on Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:54 pm

I had a heatwave. I didn't care for it, which is why I got rid of it. It had no value TO ME. This is why I think the system is bunk. Value varies between everyone depending on what they have and don't have, as well as changes over time on top of that. It's way too over-complicated for a video game, in my opinion, and should be re-purposed in a far simpler manner. Just reading the mod's description gave me a headache (and while he did explain what I asked for, he didn't do it in such a way that was easy to understand - big words and all that).

I'm fine with the way the game set it up (well, mostly) - what I'm not fine with is this imaginary value system the community came up with that allows those who cheat, steal, and game the system to end up with more and abuse this supposed market. I'm constantly surrounded by friends who do exactly this, and that have everything, yet aren't willing to trade with me, because I don't have anything they don't already have. For example, while I have 4 of the same hat of varying colors, a friend of mine has 20+ of every type of topper in every type of color, and that's on top of 17 different Twitch accounts that he uses in conjunction with his multitude of fake accounts to "game the system" - he is also now currently in possession of ~40 apex rims that he can use for trading at his leisure. How exactly is that a fair-trade market? Answer - it isn't. It's all rubbish! Those who cheat get rewarded; those who don't get squat or screwed.
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Re: Rewards

Postby NoOne-NBA on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:22 pm

Galactic Geek wrote:I had a heatwave. I didn't care for it, which is why I got rid of it. It had no value TO ME. This is why I think the system is bunk. Value varies between everyone depending on what they have and don't have, as well as changes over time on top of that..

The values in the price guides change over time too.
Heatwave used to be much more expensive than it is now, as did most of the other items.

That's exactly how things work in the real world too.
Stuff that was really valuable when it was new/rare is suddenly less so as the supply grows, and demand drops.
Look at 4k TVs.
The first ones out were prohibitively expensive, and only people with more money than sense bought them.
Now they're relatively affordable, and OLED TVs are the "next big thing".

As far as the game goes, you could have traded that heatwave for a lot of other stuff you would have valued more.
If you didn't do that, YOU are the one who screwed you, not the game.
If you'd get off Xbox, you'd have a much better economy to deal in, as well.
I recently traded off a whole bunch of things I've received in drops, or traded up for using the in-game trade up system.
I traded off painted cars I didn't want, painted boosts, etc...
I ended up with a whole bunch of leftover keys in the process, in addition to the painted cars I bought with some of the keys/items, some goal explosions, and the like.
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Re: Rewards

Postby E_M_E_T on Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:54 pm

Galactic Geek wrote:I had a heatwave. I didn't care for it, which is why I got rid of it. It had no value TO ME. This is why I think the system is bunk. Value varies between everyone depending on what they have and don't have, as well as changes over time on top of that. It's way too over-complicated for a video game, in my opinion, and should be re-purposed in a far simpler manner. Just reading the mod's description gave me a headache (and while he did explain what I asked for, he didn't do it in such a way that was easy to understand - big words and all that).


The entire point of having a market is so that items that you don't want can be turned into items that you do want. An item's value to you means nothing if it disagrees with the majority. You should be happy if an item you don't care about happens to be worth a lot of keys. It's really not that complicated. You get an item, you check its worth, and if you really care about value then you should try to sell it as quickly as possible as items pretty much always depreciate in value.

It's not too complicated for a "video game". That's a ridiculous thing to say when some of the most iconic games of all time are trading-card games that are 100x more complicated than a key/crate system. Just look at Fifa Ultimate Team. If you want to get the most profit, you have to keep track of real life football in order to try to predict hype around certain players from around the world. Then you have to look in game to find if there's a reason why some random no-name from the danish league (no offense) is worth ten thousand coins when he would otherwise be only 200 coins. The market goes up and down in extremely inconsistent ways.

In Rocket League, it's very simple; there are only two factors that determine the price of items.
1) rarity, pretty self-explanatory.
2) How good it looks to the community (people like red for some reason, idk)
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Re: Rewards

Postby littlebigleg on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:44 am

i like the xbox way,pretty cool the community managed to evolve such a unique form of currency .Psyonix should start discontinuing items more often so they suddenly jump up in price.Use the rubber duckies effect to keep it intresting
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Re: Rewards

Postby Galactic Geek on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:01 am

"It's like the real world" everyone says without ever realizing that many of us play games to escape from the real world and it's complexities. Games are meant to be simple and fun. If I have to leave the game to double-check the value of every single item that I want to trade using a player-made economy spreadsheet or outside club or website that's not even built into the game itself, then it ceases to be simple, good, and fun. I'm not here to work; I'm here to play.

That said, I'm perfectly fine with 1-on-1 personal-value-based trades (If it's worth the trade between us, great! If not, then oh well!) or using crates as whole currency, but the moment someone starts telling me about heatwave value or throwing around percentage numbers for whole items, then forget about it. Enjoy your micromanagement - I'll be too busy kicking butt online, because I have enough complications in my life and I'm not going to add this to it...
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Re: Rewards

Postby NoOne-NBA on Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:50 am

Galactic Geek wrote:That said, I'm perfectly fine with... using crates as whole currency, but the moment someone starts telling me about heatwave value or throwing around percentage numbers for whole items, then forget about it.

Why is it OK to use "Crates" as a currency, but not "Heatwaves"?
Is it the fractions themselves that put you off?
You seem to get really lost any time the discussion moves into fractional equivalents, or basic economics.

That being said, which specific crate do you propose they switch the currency to?
All the crates have different values, based on the same supply/demand curves as the current "Heatwave" system, so some crates will be worth a fraction of other crates.
What happens when Psyonix discontinues whatever crate you choose as the new currency?

On a similar line, how is saying "Heatwave is worth xxx Accelerator Crates" any different than saying "1 Accelerator Crate is worth 1/xxx Heatwaves"?
To me, those statements are one and the same.
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Re: Rewards

Postby Galactic Geek on Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:38 am

I never took economics and math has never been a strength of mine. I like to keep things simple and I see absolutely no reason to overcomplicate the trading in this game - the only reason it has become so complex is because of those who want to monopolize upon it. As for the crates (I knew I was going to regret posting about that), again to keep it simple, all crates would either be worth the same value, or valued based on age (with no partials either, so there's no "it's worth 1 1/2 crates!" How would you even trade 1/2 a crate?). The newer crates are worth more when they release, so going back a ways, for example, CC1 = 1 (base value), CC2 = 2 (worth 2 CC1s), and so on (or something similar). Also, crates, IMO, should never be discontinued (with the exception of holiday crates, which would release annually) and having some of them gone forever (especially with specific battle-cars) is a great loss to the game.
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Re: Rewards

Postby NoOne-NBA on Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:36 pm

Galactic Geek wrote:again to keep it simple, all crates would either be worth the same value, or valued based on age...

And all of that is fine and dandy, except that there is no way YOU can force someone else to "value" something.

If people want a particular item, they will always be willing to trade multiples of lesser desired items for that single item.
That supply/demand is what "sets the prices" for items.
You arbitrarily changing the unit of measure won't affect the "average value" of those items, relative to one another.
Only changes in the supply for that item, or the demand for it, will change those values.

(with no partials either, so there's no "it's worth 1 1/2 crates!" How would you even trade 1/2 a crate?).

The same way you would trade money for stuff in real life.

If you go into a store with a $20 bill, and want to buy a single $5 item, the store will have to give you something worth that other $15, before you will agree to the deal.
That is most often settled in the form of smaller currency, but what if the store were unable to give you monetary "change", for some reason?
At that point, you would either have to add more stuff to your order yourself, to make the pile of stuff you are receiving worth the $20 you are giving them, or the store would have to make such an offer itself.

That's where relative value comes in.
If they try to give you a bag of dog food "worth $15", on top of your order, the value of that item, TO YOU, will depend highly on whether you have a dog or not.
The store can't force you to value that dog food at $15, any more than you can force other people in the game to value all crates equally.

The newer crates are worth more when they release

Some.
The PCC crates were not well received, and were worth less when they launched than most of the older crates, due to relative desirability.
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Re: Rewards

Postby Galactic Geek on Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:42 pm

NoOne-NBA wrote:And all of that is fine and dandy, except that there is no way YOU can force someone else to "value" something.

You're right, I can't - but the devs can, by implementing it into the game itself; each player places the item they want to trade into a queue, which tells them the preset value in crates (as determined by the devs) that are needed to receive the item. A player wanting that item offers up the value in crates to get the item, but if they can't produce the value, the game prevents the trade. It's simple, has an OFFICIAL currency, allows for trades, prevents scams, and is a win-win. All you gotta do is actually play the game.
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Re: Rewards

Postby NoOne-NBA on Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:22 pm

Galactic Geek wrote:You're right, I can't - but the devs can, by implementing it into the game itself...

Psyonix can't dictate what something is worth any more than you can.
Stuff is "worth" what people are willing to accept, for parting with that item.

I really like my Purple Octopus, so it would take something "worth more than average" for me to part with it.
I'm sure as hell not giving it to you for 16 Accelerator crates, even if Psyonix deems that to be a "fair trade".

Jumping to real life, I really like my Jeep, but Kelley Blue Book says it isn't "worth" much anymore, due to its age and mileage.
In spite of that, it would still take an exceptional offer for me to part with it, so that is what my particular Jeep is "worth", regardless of what anyone else tries to dictate.
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Re: Rewards

Postby Galactic Geek on Wed Nov 15, 2017 6:08 pm

Well, sure, if you want to keep something, but I'm not talking about that - I'm talking about what you do want to trade. And Psyonix absolutely could dictate pricing and value if it was built in - other games do it all of the time. Think of it like a soda machine - the machine has a set price that the consumer does not directly or immediately have any control over and you can't get the drink unless you pay the rquired amount.

To put it into simplest terms, I want it to be easy, official, static, controlled, and safe. Right now, it is none of those things. It's not easy because it requires outside knowledge and resources, it's not official because the currently accepted system was player created rather than developer created, it's not static because it always changes, it's not controlled because virtually anything goes, and it's not safe because people are getting scammed all of the time.

...and please stop comparing the in-game economy with that of real-life. Just because they're similar doesn't mean that they should, or have to, be. The latter has no bearing on the former, nor should it dictate it.
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