Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Any and all discussion relating to Rocket League. Post feedback and suggestions here!

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby N7Mith on Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:11 am

xkoeckiiej wrote:
N7Mith wrote:No I'm asking for a calibration like stretch out or compress the 'skill bell' again. They stretched out the lower ranks to make it easier to get out of bronze, but screwed up platinum and diamond. IDK maybe diamond was already screwed, but gold and plat were fine.
But I do favor soft resets vs hard resets, so the first 3 weeks in a season are actually kinda balanced.


Would be cool if they added a rank above gc only for the really really really good players like rlcs folkes.

Sure, but a rank between gold and plat or plat and diamond would serve more purpose.
Has anyone got any reliable data on the current bell curve? I'd really want to see what's it at now.
Image
Happy Holidays!
N7Mith
Exceptionally Loquacious
User avatar
Exceptionally Loquacious
 
Posts: 2918
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 12:17 am
PSN ID: N7Mith
GamerTag: Mith0810
Region: EU, USE, ME

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby wsupchris1222444 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:52 pm

The hypocrisy here is real
Image
The removal of Neo Tokyo has improved the game for the majority of players
Image
wsupchris1222444
Rocket-Powered
User avatar
Rocket-Powered
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:54 am
PSN ID: wsupchris1222444
Steam ID: wsupchris1222444
Region: US

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby xkoeckiiej on Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:59 pm

N7Mith wrote:
xkoeckiiej wrote:
N7Mith wrote:No I'm asking for a calibration like stretch out or compress the 'skill bell' again. They stretched out the lower ranks to make it easier to get out of bronze, but screwed up platinum and diamond. IDK maybe diamond was already screwed, but gold and plat were fine.
But I do favor soft resets vs hard resets, so the first 3 weeks in a season are actually kinda balanced.


Would be cool if they added a rank above gc only for the really really really good players like rlcs folkes.

Sure, but a rank between gold and plat or plat and diamond would serve more purpose.
Has anyone got any reliable data on the current bell curve? I'd really want to see what's it at now.


definitely :D
https://rocketleaguestats.com/global
heres a skillcurve yet its incredibly inaccurate according to the site so not sure if it has any value

wsupchris1222444 wrote:The hypocrisy here is real

how exactly?
Image
xkoeckiiej
Missile-Guided
User avatar
Missile-Guided
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:54 am
Location: Inside Mannfield Arena Playing Doubles
PSN ID: xkoeckiiej_nl
Steam ID: xkoeckiiej
Region: EU

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby Desirsar on Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:55 pm

N7Mith wrote:No I'm asking for a calibration like stretch out or compress the 'skill bell' again. They stretched out the lower ranks to make it easier to get out of bronze, but screwed up platinum and diamond. IDK maybe diamond was already screwed, but gold and plat were fine.
But I do favor soft resets vs hard resets, so the first 3 weeks in a season are actually kinda balanced.


Let's leave their fake "calibration" word out of it, then. If you think that would work, we need an Adamantium level between Diamond and Champion, then.

I don't see it helping all that much - the problem is the variance of skill levels and styles that fall into the fat part of the bell no matter how you divide it. Until they have a way to sort those players from each other without regard to players at the extreme ends of the full curve, I don't see much changing. I don't care how they do it - heck, take the bad suggestion of using points - but keep it properly hidden from the player and the API, and do it entirely in the matchmaking.
Desirsar
Battle-Car
Battle-Car
 
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:18 am
Steam ID: Desirsar
Region: US

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby N7Mith on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:14 pm

An extra rank (x 3) would only work if they adjusted mmr gains and losses accordingly. And then it wouldn't matter if it's Iron before bronze, one in the middle, or RLCS after GC.
And whatever you'd call the rank redistribution, they call it calibration so that's official to me.
Image
Happy Holidays!
N7Mith
Exceptionally Loquacious
User avatar
Exceptionally Loquacious
 
Posts: 2918
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 12:17 am
PSN ID: N7Mith
GamerTag: Mith0810
Region: EU, USE, ME

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby wsupchris1222444 on Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:45 pm

xkoeckiiej wrote:
wsupchris1222444 wrote:The hypocrisy here is real

how exactly?


You were a big advocate for "there is nothing wrong with matchmaking, you just suck" and now you've made a thread complaining about the matchmaking giving you poor teamates.
Image
The removal of Neo Tokyo has improved the game for the majority of players
Image
wsupchris1222444
Rocket-Powered
User avatar
Rocket-Powered
 
Posts: 142
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:54 am
PSN ID: wsupchris1222444
Steam ID: wsupchris1222444
Region: US

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby zGreenMachine- on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:40 pm

The thing is they've already added more ranks back when Season 4 started. At this point they might be better off adding more divisions per rank or increasing the amount of points between divisions, which could possibly spread out the playerbase a bit more but it would also push a lot of players down the ladder further pissing everyone off. Don't even know if that would balance matchmaking any better or worse.

Maybe they have to start from scratch and completely rework the algorithm that gauges the supposed skill level of each player.
Image
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
zGreenMachine-
Expeditious
User avatar
Expeditious
 
Posts: 1007
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 7:21 pm
PSN ID: xGR33NM4CH1N3x
Steam ID: 76561198098758739
Region: US CST

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby xkoeckiiej on Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:03 am

wsupchris1222444 wrote:
xkoeckiiej wrote:
wsupchris1222444 wrote:The hypocrisy here is real

how exactly?


You were a big advocate for "there is nothing wrong with matchmaking, you just suck" and now you've made a thread complaining about the matchmaking giving you poor teamates.


First of all im not complaining about my teammates , my friends do so. Not me.
Still have 0 games in 6 mans.
Thats not hypocrite, i just pass a message through.
I still stand behind my standpoint. People shouldnt bitch cuzz theyre bad , i told them so as well.
Just because i say other people think ranked is dead so they play 6 mans doesnt mean im hypocrite.
I am however , addressing that people stop playing ranked and rather play 6 mans because they dont like ranked anymore.

zGreenMachine- wrote:The thing is they've already added more ranks back when Season 4 started. At this point they might be better off adding more divisions per rank or increasing the amount of points between divisions, which could possibly spread out the playerbase a bit more but it would also push a lot of players down the ladder further pissing everyone off. Don't even know if that would balance matchmaking any better or worse.

Maybe they have to start from scratch and completely rework the algorithm that gauges the supposed skill level of each player.

Changig 4 divs per tier back to 5 would be nice.
Image
xkoeckiiej
Missile-Guided
User avatar
Missile-Guided
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:54 am
Location: Inside Mannfield Arena Playing Doubles
PSN ID: xkoeckiiej_nl
Steam ID: xkoeckiiej
Region: EU

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby midnightgreen20 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:04 am

zGreenMachine- wrote:The thing is they've already added more ranks back when Season 4 started. At this point they might be better off adding more divisions per rank or increasing the amount of points between divisions, which could possibly spread out the playerbase a bit more but it would also push a lot of players down the ladder further pissing everyone off. Don't even know if that would balance matchmaking any better or worse.

Maybe they have to start from scratch and completely rework the algorithm that gauges the supposed skill level of each player.


Perhaps we should just accept the fact that they will never make a good ranking system. Despite their many attempts at fixing the problems, they never end up getting solved in the long run. And it's not like it is just a Rocket League problem. Overwatch has been having the same issues as this game too. Of course, they do rankings in a similar fashion to this game. That kind of suggests to me that the method they are going about this is fundamentally flawed in a way that will just never work as intended.

That's why they should focus less on this aspect and beef up their unranked games.
midnightgreen20
Rocket-Powered
Rocket-Powered
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 2:29 pm
PSN ID: midnightgreen20
Region: United States

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby N7Mith on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:35 am

midnightgreen20 wrote:
zGreenMachine- wrote:The thing is they've already added more ranks back when Season 4 started. At this point they might be better off adding more divisions per rank or increasing the amount of points between divisions, which could possibly spread out the playerbase a bit more but it would also push a lot of players down the ladder further pissing everyone off. Don't even know if that would balance matchmaking any better or worse.

Maybe they have to start from scratch and completely rework the algorithm that gauges the supposed skill level of each player.


Perhaps we should just accept the fact that they will never make a good ranking system. Despite their many attempts at fixing the problems, they never end up getting solved in the long run. And it's not like it is just a Rocket League problem. Overwatch has been having the same issues as this game too. Of course, they do rankings in a similar fashion to this game. That kind of suggests to me that the method they are going about this is fundamentally flawed in a way that will just never work as intended.

That's why they should focus less on this aspect and beef up their unranked games.

I don't accept that. Up to S3 I had great matchmaking in Gold, S4 and 5 in Platinum. I don't see how that should be impossible in the higher and lower ranks. It might involve a change in algorithm, or mmr distribution, but it should be possible. My best indicators for this are a high overtime ratio and few goals in total.
I think many people should rather accept that uneven matches aren't always the fault of the system, but often the players having bad (or exceptionally great) games.
Last edited by N7Mith on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
Image
Happy Holidays!
N7Mith
Exceptionally Loquacious
User avatar
Exceptionally Loquacious
 
Posts: 2918
Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 12:17 am
PSN ID: N7Mith
GamerTag: Mith0810
Region: EU, USE, ME

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby xkoeckiiej on Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:41 am

N7Mith wrote:
midnightgreen20 wrote:
zGreenMachine- wrote:The thing is they've already added more ranks back when Season 4 started. At this point they might be better off adding more divisions per rank or increasing the amount of points between divisions, which could possibly spread out the playerbase a bit more but it would also push a lot of players down the ladder further pissing everyone off. Don't even know if that would balance matchmaking any better or worse.

Maybe they have to start from scratch and completely rework the algorithm that gauges the supposed skill level of each player.


Perhaps we should just accept the fact that they will never make a good ranking system. Despite their many attempts at fixing the problems, they never end up getting solved in the long run. And it's not like it is just a Rocket League problem. Overwatch has been having the same issues as this game too. Of course, they do rankings in a similar fashion to this game. That kind of suggests to me that the method they are going about this is fundamentally flawed in a way that will just never work as intended.

That's why they should focus less on this aspect and beef up their unranked games.

I don't accept that. Up to S3 I had great matchmaking in Gold, S4 and 5 in Platinum. I don't see how that should be impossible in the higher and lower ranks. It might involve a change in algorithm, or mmr distribution, but it should be possible.
I think many people should rather accept that uneven matches aren't always the fault of the system, but often the players having bad (or exceptionally great) games.


This this this this

I remember from personal experience that i played once with violentpanda and played like absolute garbage (won though as defense was fine, literally the only thing).
Then a couple of games later i played with metsanauris and outdribbled paschy and bluey. Getting a shitton of praise from metsa on his stream. (also won pogchamp). While panda thinks (if based on that game) i should be demoted to freaking bronse for being a complete retard. While Metsa (based on that game) thinks i deserve there so to speak.
Your own level and especially on lower ranks is fluctuating so incredibly hard that more often than not the mm does a great job yet people fail to see this due to these circumstances. People can play bad games in a row and play fine the next.
Image
xkoeckiiej
Missile-Guided
User avatar
Missile-Guided
 
Posts: 1562
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:54 am
Location: Inside Mannfield Arena Playing Doubles
PSN ID: xkoeckiiej_nl
Steam ID: xkoeckiiej
Region: EU

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby Desirsar on Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:20 am

I just realized an easy method for separating within the fat part of the curve... a player's MMR in other game modes. A platinum three in solo 3v3 that is diamond two in doubles and standard is not anywhere close to a platinum three in solo 3v3 that is platinum two in doubles and standard.
Desirsar
Battle-Car
Battle-Car
 
Posts: 687
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:18 am
Steam ID: Desirsar
Region: US

Re: Ranked is in bad shape on the higher levels

Postby midnightgreen20 on Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:16 am

N7Mith wrote:I think many people should rather accept that uneven matches aren't always the fault of the system, but often the players having bad (or exceptionally great) games.


If the game took individual performance into consideration when determining MMR gains and losses, I would buy that premise. That just isn't the case in Rocket League. No amount of algorithm adjustments will end up with the game matching you with people both at proper skill level and being a fit from a chemistry standpoint. Human nature is just too complex to boil down into numbers. That is something that game developers think they can make happen, but it is honestly just a futile battle. Which is why I keep saying they are better off bolstering the unranked area of the game. Give players more options in that area to create and find games so that they don't have to use the automated matchmaking.
midnightgreen20
Rocket-Powered
Rocket-Powered
 
Posts: 234
Joined: Mon May 23, 2016 2:29 pm
PSN ID: midnightgreen20
Region: United States

Previous

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: XDFaisca and 5 guests