Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's YOU

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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby Galactic Geek on Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:25 am

NoOne-NBA wrote:
Galactic Geek wrote:Also, you're wrong about the whole "what can I do differently" mindset; it should be "what can we do differently" - in a team-based game, it's not about "you" or "them"; it's about "us". You need to look at both - at the WHOLE picture.

I am looking at the "whole picture".
What the "whole picture" tells me is, yet again, YOU can't MAKE anyone else do anything.

You are dealing with random people, in 5 minute games.
You're not going to change what they're doing in that amount of time, even if you try.
That leaves you stuck adapting to how those people ARE playing, or getting teammates with whom you can reach an agreement to play a certain way.

That's a defeatist attitude if I've ever seen 1...

You're right, though - we can't make anyone do anything. However, that's a universal argument that always "wins" because it is absolutely true, regardless of subject matter. People have free will, and they make their own choices. If that were an argument that we lived by, though, we would've died off as a species long ago - after all, why try anything if we can't make other people do anything? That said, you're also wrong, because we're not trying to make them do anything. We're not fools - we know that's as impossible as reaching throught the monitor, grabbing their controller, and doing it for them. What we are trying to do is INFLUENCE them. That is what we can do, and it does work - I know because I do it every single day, and in that amount of time. All the other players have to do is listen. If they do, they might be able to take a moment and rationalize that the advice I'm often giving can and will help them.
Last edited by Galactic Geek on Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby Galactic Geek on Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:32 am

xkoeckiiej wrote:Theres a reason they won't reach gc. And its not understanding this/disagreeing with this.
Its worthless trying to convince people who dont want to change.

You can't possibly know who will and who won't reach GC. As for the people who don't want to change, those aren't the ones we're trying to reach. We already know that those who are unwilling to change or adapt are doomed to fail. We want those who are willing to listen, and go "oh yeah, that makes sense" or even "I suppose, but..." It's those who immediately shut out good advice and that continually try to do things their own way without help from others that routinely fail.

We are a team, and individually, we probably fail, but together, we will likely prevail. It's as simple as that...
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby xkoeckiiej on Thu Nov 23, 2017 2:02 am

Galactic Geek wrote:
xkoeckiiej wrote:Theres a reason they won't reach gc. And its not understanding this/disagreeing with this.
Its worthless trying to convince people who dont want to change.

You can't possibly know who will and who won't reach GC. As for the people who don't want to change, those aren't the ones we're trying to reach. We already know that those who are unwilling to change or adapt are doomed to fail. We want those who are willing to listen, and go "oh yeah, that makes sense" or even "I suppose, but..." It's those who immediately shut out good advice and that continually try to do things their own way without help from others that routinely fail.

We are a team, and individually, we probably fail, but together, we will likely prevail. It's as simple as that...

Indeed i cant predict the future, yet i can make educated guesses.
From personal experience from the alpha till now, people who put the blame outside themselves very rarely hit gc or do well.
People who actively adapt to situations and accept advice instead of kick against it often do reach it.
Therefore i made the statement, based on an educated guess.

You can prevail as team if you adapt to eahother , but ive made that point dozens of times by now ^^
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby zGreenMachine- on Thu Nov 23, 2017 3:50 am

You have a valid point Galactic: people should want constructive criticism and advice and there's a chance your words will inspire them.

People go to school to learn and get lectured. People hop into RL ranked to git gud, win, and rank up. The problem is that people do not want to be told how to git gud (no matter how well intended or politely said) during a game or when they don't win. Many reply with "well you shouldn't have missed that goal/save" or "stfu", correct? That has been my experience at least.

From what I've read, nobody is arguing that you shouldn't attempt to give advice. I'm all for friendly tips and I'd probably be one of the few people to respond positively to you ingame. All anyone is trying to say is that in the long run the biggest factor that you personally have control over is how well you play. That's it.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby N7Mith on Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:05 am

zGreenMachine- wrote:You have a valid point Galactic: people should want constructive criticism and advice and there's a chance your words will inspire them.

People go to school to learn and get lectured. People hop into RL ranked to git gud, win, and rank up. The problem is that people do not want to be told how to git gud (no matter how well intended or politely said) during a game or when they don't win. Many reply with "well you shouldn't have missed that goal/save" or "stfu", correct? That has been my experience at least.

A certain person in this very thread comes to mind :roll:
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby Burito101 on Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:55 am

Basically, if you're thinking about blaming your teammates, understand you aren't playing perfect either and if you want to win the game then either elevate your skill to carry or adjust to your tm8's style.

Unless you are a grand champion, you have no right to bitch and moan because your skill is not top notch.

If you want to be a petulant little child and bitch about a soccer car game giving you dumb teammates then please post a video of you playing a match so we can see just how much a perfect teammate you really are. I'll save you the effort, you're shit.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby littlebigleg on Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:51 pm

well said
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby xkoeckiiej on Mon Nov 27, 2017 4:24 pm

Came across this, made me think of this thread
https://gyazo.com/bdd01b95bddead544b71ba4ec176933c
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby NoOne-NBA on Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:40 pm

Galactic Geek wrote:That's a defeatist attitude if I've ever seen 1...

It's not a "defeatist" attitude though, it a realist's attitude.

I've dealt with enough people over the years, in enough different situations, to realize I'm not going to change what other people are inclined to do in a 5 minute game.
With "nothing changing" as the most likely conclusion to any efforts I make to affect change on their parts, I have chosen to adapt to what they ARE doing, by filling the gaps in THEIR strategies the best I can.
If they are ball chasers, I let them ball chase, and focus more on not giving up any goals, and feeding the ball back in to them.
If they are too defensive, I focus more offense, and trust THEM to prevent us from bleeding goals.

That is a much more effective strategy, over the long run, than wasting my time trying to get my teammates to do something they don't want to do.
You can call it "constructive criticism" all you want...most of the people you talk to will see it as you bitching at them.
More often than not that backfires, and the person plays even worse because he's either pissed at you, or is trying to do something he's not good at.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby Lifted on Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:23 am

@OP Great advice. I think the only thing wrong with this thread is the title. I say that because the majority of the arguments is coming from people who think OP is saying it's only YOUR fault and not your teammates.

INSTEAD, OP is saying that within the parameters of a single game with 5 other random people, the only factor you have control of is you. And the best thing to do is adapting to the situation you're put in.

To jump on the basketball example from earlier:
Suppose you were in a basketball league which matched you with random teammates every game.
The mentality of a lot of people in this thread seems to be that every game you're going to get 5 teammates with the same 3-point shooting skill, same height, same dribbling skill, same size, etc and everyone's role can be interchangeably assigned. However, that's not the case and you have to adjust accordingly.
Suppose your a pretty speedy guy and your favorite playstyle is running out the defenders, finding open space and pulling up for the three point shot.
As well as this might work on one team, say the next team you're on, you're now the tallest guy and you're with smaller, faster guys. In this situation, it might be more veritable to play as center for your team's inability to get rebounds or unable to post up against taller/bigger guys on the other team, letting someone else go for those 3 point shots and playing off of each person's strengths.

And that's really the point of this thread. When OP is saying, "It's not them, it's YOU", what he's trying to say is that you're being that guy that, regardless of his teammates, you're continuing to play your own game and not taking into account what your teammates are capable of or incapable of. Still taking the three-point shots so that now you're shorter teammates are useless or getting dominated in the paint or your team just unable to get rebounds or possessions.

Relating that to Rocket League, yeah, the random might be bad and might not have as consistent shots as you while aerialing or cut in front of you for a ball that was clearly yours. But there's a difference in skill level and the mentality of one player who sees the bad teammate cut in front of them and stops to adapt to the situation, versus the player who continues to go for the ball knowing him and his teammate will now be double committed and if things go wrong, they'll be scored on.

OP is not saying other people are not bad, but if everyone on the team focused on being aware and adapting to each other accordingly; making up for each others faults and supplementing where needed. Ultimately, you can only develop this way of thinking and playing for yourself, and you will probably see more success playing this way then tilting further and further by raging everytime a teammate does something they shouldn't be doing and not "following the rules of the road".

Like it was said earlier, yeah, you may have the right to walk across the street because there's a red light telling the cars to stop. But are you going to blindly walk across it despite hearing and seeing the speeding car of someone with no intention of stopping heading towards you? Being too stubborn to adapt just because someone else isn't following the rules or playing the way you want them to play won't get you anywhere and I have agree with the person that said you probably won't ever to make it to the other side of the road (Grand Champion) by solo queuing.

You'll be in the right, but you'll also be dead.

Putting it into terms, your rank in solo queue does not measure your skill level. It's a measure of how well you can adapt to adversity.

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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby N7Mith on Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:44 am

Well said. The ones needing this have probably gone though :/
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby kevinmd88 on Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:49 am

This is a wonderful post and I am tempted to make a short-URL link to it for those all-too-common toxic games. Kudos to you. It is very easy to blame those around you instead of working together. I'm definitely not a great rank (teetering between high-gold and low-plat at this point in my "career"), but no matter what my rank or how I'm playing, the games I enjoy the most are the down-to-the-wire ones that you just feel the pressure in. Maybe with a lengthy OT. It's such a rush, and I find that those kinds of games don't happen when toxins are in the lobby with us.

We all succumb to rage once in a while. This post will help me keep focused.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby OsoMako on Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:56 pm

Lifted wrote:@OP Great advice. I think the only thing wrong with this thread is the title. I say that because the majority of the arguments is coming from people who think OP is saying it's only YOUR fault and not your teammates.

INSTEAD, OP is saying that within the parameters of a single game with 5 other random people, the only factor you have control of is you. And the best thing to do is adapting to the situation you're put in.

Yeah, the title is a bit trolly/click-baity. It seems to have worked though as it's probably my most popular post and there's been great discussion on it. ;)

I like your basketball example very much. Your post is more oriented to how you play as a team, which is great, and I think mine is more focused on how you play as an individual and what mistakes people often make. I think my main point is that none of us are perfect and that you're always playing sub-optimally and hurting your team somehow. A lot of folks seem to have a hard time accepting that or want to say that their teammates do an even worse job of it, but that doesn't matter as once again -- you can only control you. So your job is to make the best plays you know how to make given the situation, and to be hyper-aware of both your teammates and the opponents.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby Galactic Geek on Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:15 am

You can't control your teammates - that's true. However, that shouldn't stop you from trying to work with them or from positively influencing them in some way. If you have the ability to help others, and they're receptive to it, it would be a shame and a waste not to.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby midnightgreen20 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 10:32 am

Galactic Geek wrote:I can't agree with this statement enough. Games need to start emphasizing having fun over winning, but as time goes on, it seems to me that more and more of the opposite tends to be true - especially with so many groups and companies trying to cash in on the "amazing" esports scene. While games have always been competitive to a degree, it's becoming so prominently pushed to the forefront nowadays that, along with the anonymity of being online, people are just becoming down-right despicable.


It's more an amazing bubble that will burst in due time. The esports scene as a whole is being pushed a bit too hard and so many sponsors are jumping on board. Once those sponsors start looking at their investments and see that they aren't moving product as a result, they will start to pull out due to the losses they take. This is especially true with the TV networks trying to jump on board to keep younger people from cutting the cord.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby N7Mith on Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:57 pm

midnightgreen20 wrote:
Galactic Geek wrote:I can't agree with this statement enough. Games need to start emphasizing having fun over winning, but as time goes on, it seems to me that more and more of the opposite tends to be true - especially with so many groups and companies trying to cash in on the "amazing" esports scene. While games have always been competitive to a degree, it's becoming so prominently pushed to the forefront nowadays that, along with the anonymity of being online, people are just becoming down-right despicable.


It's more an amazing bubble that will burst in due time. The esports scene as a whole is being pushed a bit too hard and so many sponsors are jumping on board. Once those sponsors start looking at their investments and see that they aren't moving product as a result, they will start to pull out due to the losses they take. This is especially true with the TV networks trying to jump on board to keep younger people from cutting the cord.

Who says sponsors aren't getting their expected revenue? Their 'ads' are viewed by a target audience percentage, which (for instance) TV commercials don't get close to.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby midnightgreen20 on Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:59 pm

N7Mith wrote:
midnightgreen20 wrote:
Galactic Geek wrote:I can't agree with this statement enough. Games need to start emphasizing having fun over winning, but as time goes on, it seems to me that more and more of the opposite tends to be true - especially with so many groups and companies trying to cash in on the "amazing" esports scene. While games have always been competitive to a degree, it's becoming so prominently pushed to the forefront nowadays that, along with the anonymity of being online, people are just becoming down-right despicable.


It's more an amazing bubble that will burst in due time. The esports scene as a whole is being pushed a bit too hard and so many sponsors are jumping on board. Once those sponsors start looking at their investments and see that they aren't moving product as a result, they will start to pull out due to the losses they take. This is especially true with the TV networks trying to jump on board to keep younger people from cutting the cord.

Who says sponsors aren't getting their expected revenue? Their 'ads' are viewed by a target audience percentage, which (for instance) TV commercials don't get close to.


Because it isn't about people putting their eyeballs on the ads. It is them buying the products associated with the ads. That is where I think they will have their troubles and ultimately pull back a bit on the sponsorships or at least how much they are willing to pay.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby N7Mith on Sun Dec 03, 2017 7:54 pm

midnightgreen20 wrote:
N7Mith wrote:Who says sponsors aren't getting their expected revenue? Their 'ads' are viewed by a target audience percentage, which (for instance) TV commercials don't get close to.


Because it isn't about people putting their eyeballs on the ads. It is them buying the products associated with the ads. That is where I think they will have their troubles and ultimately pull back a bit on the sponsorships or at least how much they are willing to pay.

You underestimate the subconscious brain. Sponsors count on that to link their product to positive emotions. An epic showdown between two teams for instance. If the brand is properly shown you might forget that it was there, but when you're shopping for the item you'll get subconsciously drawn to that brand. That's the core, in simple terms. And it absolutely works, or businesses wouldn't do it.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby midnightgreen20 on Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:06 am

N7Mith wrote:
midnightgreen20 wrote:
N7Mith wrote:Who says sponsors aren't getting their expected revenue? Their 'ads' are viewed by a target audience percentage, which (for instance) TV commercials don't get close to.


Because it isn't about people putting their eyeballs on the ads. It is them buying the products associated with the ads. That is where I think they will have their troubles and ultimately pull back a bit on the sponsorships or at least how much they are willing to pay.

You underestimate the subconscious brain. Sponsors count on that to link their product to positive emotions. An epic showdown between two teams for instance. If the brand is properly shown you might forget that it was there, but when you're shopping for the item you'll get subconsciously drawn to that brand. That's the core, in simple terms. And it absolutely works, or businesses wouldn't do it.


You're still assuming that the sponsors are moving product at a rate that makes the investment worth it. I don't particularly find that to be the case at the moment.
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Re: Think your teammates bring you down? It's not them, it's

Postby Galactic Geek on Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:14 am

Proof? Anybody? No? Okay then... If you want to argue until the cows come home or the horse is dead, then that's your choice, but I'd rather not start an argument that's so open to interpretation.
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